And boy, am I excited!



This pic above is resized so as to be device-friendly, but that was my view this afternoon.
See that row of trees heading up and to the right, just above the center line of the pic? See that little short one, second one from the left in the row? Well, put your Imagination Hat on, and look straight up from the tip of that tree. The 16" gong sat there.

Prior to this past summer, I had never shot at any range over 100 yards. I got a little 200-yard time with an AR last summer (thank you, jljones and OpSpec!) and had a great time of it. Last week one of my coworkers texted me a date, a time, and grid coordinates.

This morning was beautiful, though it was only about 40 degrees when I left the house. I dressed for it and hit the road (and the off-road), meeting my friend and some of his family and friends for a little 100- and 200- yard time, plus some 25-yard work for a young nephew with a three-times handed-down single shot .22 rifle. The young fella did well!

At 200 yards, I was consistent left-to-right, within about a 3" span, and about 4" low. I can work with / adjust for that. When we moved to the longer range, there was a 5" steel disc at about 375 yards, plus two more of those and a 16" at 500. I couldn't see the 375, thanks to shadow, but I had a clear view of that 16. First couple of shots were (expectedly) low, but after some adjusting I was watching the big white disc dance.

I couldn't hit it every time, most often sliding in right beneath it. But good grief is it satisfying to watch that gong bounce around and hear that "clank!" just a moment later!

I know y'all are gonna ask, so here it is:
McMillan .308, wearing a Leupold 4-10.
Hornady "American Gunner" factory ammo, 155-grain (this).

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Edited for poor spelling. Oops.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: vthoky,

Nothing like "bang" ... "clang" (or faint "tink").
Congratulations.

Thank you!

Long range rifle shooting is one of those things I believe the all-round shooter should strive to master (if possible, of course). As I’ve learned from both the guidance I’ve gotten here and through my own experiences, it demands knowledge and skills that no other discipline does and I’m still working on that mastery myself.

Loving this day!
Two members whose long-range posts I've read routinely are the first two to show up in this thread.

I'm nowhere near "mastery;" today's experience is the tip of the iceberg, I'm sure.

love it !

wish I had the chance to shoot longer ranges like that

beautiful setting also !

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congrats Dan! at our age, if you can still see 500 yrds you're ahead of most! lol good shooting

Sig209: it's a beautiful place... it's actually a tree farm.

Tom: truly, I was worried I wouldn't be able to see them, even with that 4-10 cranked all the way up. Once I realized I could see the small ones at 500, I was ready to rock! Heck, at 10x, I was able to do a little spotting for the other fellas.

quote:

Originally posted by vthoky:
Sig209: it's a beautiful place... it's actually a tree farm.

Tom: truly, I was worried I wouldn't be able to see them, even with that 4-10 cranked all the way up. Once I realized I could see the small ones at 500, I was ready to rock! Heck, at 10x, I was able to do a little spotting for the other fellas.

Sig209 and Tom have my exact thoughts. The only other thought was “what watch were you wearing?”

quote:

Originally posted by craigcpa:
The only other thought was “what watch were you wearing?”

This one.
The PADI got a day off yesterday.

Three weeks doing the Reach for a Thousand for the third time at the academy. It's one of the few ways to get access to that range. Satisfying when I get a hit although it's not ever time. Last time we had some high winds.

George Harris showed up with his 223 bolt action using some high tech SEAL ammo they left him on one of their trips. He's getting hits while we are all cursing.

Long range shooting is a very rewarding exercise as you know.
Next time you go out try a box of these and see how you do.

https://www.targetsportsusa.co...-gm308m2-p-1744.aspx

All I use is Federal GMM 308 in 175. Last time we bought it in bulk. I found that Sig's Elite Match in 175 works well.

This is where the learning starts, I suppose. I'm curious about those 175-grain bullets. The fellow from whom I got the rifle gave me his "load recipe," which calls for 168. (I haven't started loading 308 yet.) I had some 180-grain in my collection and started yesterday with those. I also had some 155, and one of the fellows there said I should try them, as they may fly a bit flatter.

My engineer-geek head started thinking all sorts of things after that. Will a lighter bullet fall off sooner? Or have less resistance over the distance and fly "better?" Will a heavier bullet carry more energy, better for pushing through the light breeze blowing across the valley? Why 168, when mostly what I see on the shelves is 155 or 180? What if... why... and so on.

I'll keep an eye out for those Federal cartridges. Thank you for the suggestion.

Ringin' steel at distance -- yeehaw. Nice range location.

You'll get more comfy with elevation and windage adjustments the more you shoot at targets which are beyond your zero distance. If you're not familiar with ballistics tables, be certain to document your elevation requirements -- whether you held elevation via the retile or dialed elevation via the turret. Windage is more of a guessing game, and it takes longer to learn.

An important goal with shooting targets at distance is developing the skills to have your impacts being on the same height on the target. And in the center elevation of the steel -- i.e. mid-way from the top to the bottom of the steel. With round or diamond-shaped targets, this increases your hit percentage, even when your wind call is a little off.

Experiment with various ammo loads, to see what your rifle likes best. Of course, ammo availability is a challenge right now. Match-grade loads from Hornady and Federal are good places to start. However, your current load may do the trick. Black Hills, Fiocchi, Aussie Outback are all options --- plus a bunch of other brands.

Get out there and do it again!

For long range shooting it really helps to become familiar with a ballistics calculator like the JBM:

http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgi

Some of that may seem intimidating, but once we learn what the various terms and inputs mean and require, it becomes pretty easy. The unknown is what your bullet velocity is, and if you don’t have a way of measuring it directly, the loading tables should give you a reasonably useful estimate.

Using the calculator we can see how the velocity and things like wind drift and bullet drop change with distance. That will answer questions such as how flat the trajectory is at longer ranges.

To cite a couple of examples, the two classic bullets that military and law enforcement snipers used/use are the 168 and 175 grain Sierra Matchking open tip match bullets. But between the two, the 175 is better for longer distances. As I recall, the 168 was developed long ago to perform very well to 300 meters, but is generally considered to be not as good beyond that.

If we’re banging steel at known (moderate) distances, the flatness of the trajectory doesn’t matter too much—unless your scope elevation can’t be dialed up enough to aim directly at the target. I wouldn’t think that would be a problem with your scope to 500 yards and beyond (and you already know it works for that range), but it can be an issue. That, however, is one thing a ballistics table will tell us in advance.

Added:
You should of course pay close attention to anything fritz tells you, such as below.

I just saw your questions on loads. I've shot a bunch of factory 308 ammo, and relaying the experience in MY gun could be quite extended. However....

Match-grade bullets for factory 308 are generally found in weights of 155, 168, and 175. I've shot a few match loads in the 180+ grain ballpark, and they performed well.

155 is a fairly light weight bullet, so the muzzle velocity will be relatively high -- possibly 2900 fps, depending on your barrel length and type. I've found the best 155 grain loads to be pretty darn accurate -- with Hornady's AMax and ELD, with Sierra's Matchking ("SMK"), and Lapua's Scenar bullets.

168 is more middle of the road for a 308 bore. Hornady's Amax and ELD are great in my rifle. SMK is likely the most accurate for me -- as long as distances don't go beyond 700-ish yards. Sierra's Tipped Matchking ("TMK" -- a plastic tip) didn't fly all that well for me.

175 is a common load, especially with the SMK bullet. I think it's fair to state that most quality barrels shoot 175 SMK loads -- such as Federal GMM -- really well. The 175 TMK bullet wasn't very accurate for me.

At your current distances of up to 500 yards, any of these weight bullets can be really accurate.

Ya, banging steel is lots of fun! I stuck that needle in my arm several years ago!

How are the steel plates hung? Single point?

Congrats on the McMillan rifle, very nice actions, last a lifetime. McMillan is only one of two action makers that I know of who carburized their bolts or bolt heads. Makes for a very strong, very tough bolt.

At 500yds not that much difference in bullet weight. Click on the JBM link above enter all your data. The two main envoirmental drivers need to get kind of close is altitude and temp, don't sweat the rest. Change the wind speed to 1 mph and the column 2 (wind) to inches. It'll show you the difference in wind drift between bullets. Your ability to read the wind is going to probably be a much larger factor then the little difference between those bullets. If you dont have a chrono, easy to figure out velocity close enough. Paint the 16" plate white, spray a black horizontal line, use a piece of cardboard with a 1/2" slot as a template. Get on the black line, change velocity in JBM to match elevation dialed. Have a rock solid zero. Been using the black line method for many years at a handful of distances to true dope.

Have fun!

yeah Dan, having some great glass is every bit as important as load development. sounds like you're well on your way. im shooting Sierra 165 gr HPBT with great results out of a Savage 10

vthoky -- offgrid's suggestion on the black horizontal line in middle of a white-painted plate at 500 yards is perfect advice. Make certain your zero is spot on. I'm expecting a zero at 100 yards, but that's your call.

For the ballistics program, you'll need height of the center of the scope over the center of the bore. This distance is probably 1.75" to 2", depending on your equipment. The distance doesn't need to be accurate to the 5th decimal point, just in the ballpark.

Hornady's 155 grain HPBT bullet doesn't appear to be listed in the JBM ballistics program. Maybe they're using somebody else's bullet. Sierra's 155 grain Matchking HPBT 155 might be an option.

Tell us more about your scope and the processes you used in shooting at 500 yards:
- Did you dial elevation via the turret to get on target? If so, do you recall the numbers?
- Did you guess hold-overs via the reticle for the longer distance targets? If so, were you using any calibration lines on the reticle or were you guessing the hold overs?
- What's the length of your barrel? If it's 20 inches, I suspect your Muzzle Velocity with the Hornady ammo you used to be around 2600 fps. If its 24-26 inches, you could be close to the 2700 fps MV listed on the ammo box.