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| in the end karma always catches up |
We are getting my son a Weatherby Vanguard High country for a birthday, college graduation and Christmas present.I shoot mil spec ammo so I don’t know much about good ammo. I would like to buy him a couple of boxes of good hunting ammo. " The people shall have a right to bear arms, for the defense of themselves and the State" Art 1 Sec 32 Indiana State Constitution YAT-YAS | ||
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Nullus Anxietas |
When it comes to rifle factory ammo: Some rifles like one, others like another. E.g.: My Rem. 700 PSS likes 168 gr. Federal Gold Medal Match best. Tried several others with which others had had good success. Nope. FGMM is what my rifle likes. The bullet is a Sierra MatchKing boat-tail hollow point (BTHP). IIRC, I even tried another round that loaded the same bullet. Nope. "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe "If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher | |||
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| Green grass and high tides  |
Federal Fusion in at least 165gr. There are a lot of more expensive rds. I do like the Fusion though. Priced right and has really good performance, at least for me. "Practice like you want to play in the game" | |||
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| Freethinker |
Start with what you can find and afford these days and then try to find reviews or manufacturer’s recommendations for the game that will be hunted. SGAmmo has a variety of hunting bullet loads in stock, but the load should be chosen based on what will be hunted, not just picked at random. In general the traditional advice has been to use heavier bullets on larger animals, but again the manufacturer will usually provide its specific recommendation. https://www.sgammo.com/catalog.../308-win-762x51-ammo But as a starter, don’t purchase any Federal Gold Medal Match loads with their Sierra MatchKing bullets for hunting. The bullets are intended for shooting at targets, not game animals. ► 6.4/93.6 “Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.” — Plato | |||
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| Nullus Anxietas |
Ah. This I did not know. The bullets are boat-tail hollow points, so I assumed they were hunting rounds. They do make a FMJ version of the same bullet, I believe. "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe "If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher | |||
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| Freethinker |
I have never seen an FMJ version of the Sierra MatchKing. They’re all an “open tip” design as far as I know. That bullet in .30 caliber 168 and 175 grain versions is approved for military combat (sniping) use because despite its open tip, it’s not considered a hollow point and they usually do not expand in flesh any more than spitzer style full metal jackets with closed tips. And as I say, Sierra specifically cautions against their use for hunting. From their site: “While they are recognized around the world for record-setting accuracy, MatchKing® and Tipped MatchKing® bullets are not recommended for most hunting applications.” https://www.sierrabullets.com/...m-168-gr-hpbt-match/ Added: There is a Sierra 150 grain full metal jacket with covered tip in .30 caliber in their GameKing line, but it’s not billed as a match bullet and seems to be intended for use in duplicating the common 7.62×51mm NATO load. https://www.sierrabullets.com/...7-62mm-150-gr-fmjbt/ The commonly-reported problem with high match precision in traditional military style FMJ spitzer bullets is the difficulty of forming the jacket over the nose. Precision also seems to benefit from having a void or at least light tip up front, but I believe it’s mostly the former. ► 6.4/93.6 “Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.” — Plato | |||
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| Like a party in your pants  |
I agree with get what you can. Hunting ammo has to be picked for the job at hand. He will need ammo to site the rifle in, at least to rough it in. I have a Weatherby MarkV in 30/06, I shoot the low cost(lol)military FMJ for practice, I switch to Federal Gold Medal match when I get serious about accuracy. For hunting, the round he decides to use for hunting will have to be zeroed in again. | |||
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| Member |
Actually, my (sometimes faulty) memory says that FMJ bullets have an issue with the base or heel of the bullet when the lead core is swaged into the jacket. This base or heel, can and does have variations and that's not good as it's the last bit that gets pushed by the gasses. Swaging the lead core from the tip means you can have very uniform and clean bases (bullet heels). The jacket of match ammo is usually thicker than that of hunting ammo and as sigfreund said, the HP BT bullet is not designed to expand. Sierra has a bad reputation for ragged meplats (tip of bullet) in the Match Kings. So anyone who uses those for high precision will trim and point the meplats. Sierra introduced the Tipped Match King to try to address the meplat issue. They also fixed the angle of the boat tail in the 168gr TMK for better transonic performance. | |||
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| Nullus Anxietas |
Ok. Guess I was wrong on both points. Thanks for the correction. "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe "If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher | |||
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Member |
Never use a hollow point or a FMJ for hunting big game. Use something with a soft point, ballistic tip or one of the all copper bullets. Definitely match the bullet to the animal being hunted. Since you mentioned 308. (which I have used to hunt all over Mt & Wy for decades) My experience is for deer-125g-150g bullet. For elk & moose something in the 165-180g bullet. (these also work for black bear) If your using the all copper bullets, you can use a slightly lighter bullet but as with all hunting get close enough to make a good clean shot into the heart & or lungs. It's ethical & easier for you so you don't have to track or potentially lose a wounded animal. Rom 13:4 If you do evil, be afraid. For he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. | |||
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| Member |
The rifle's 1:10 twist will handle just about any bullet weight on the market. You should avoid ammo with the following types of bullet: - "match", Sierra Matchking, Sierra Tipped Matchking, HPBT, Hornady Amax, Hornady ELD-M, FMJ, subsonic Soft point is a standard for hunting. Some plastic tipped rounds are OK, as long as the aren't made for target shooting or light-ish varmints. The monolithic copper rounds that expand for hunting work, too. Partitioned bullets work. Bullet grain weights of 150-180 are common. You don't have to purchase the most expensive rounds. But it seems like nothing is inexpensive right now. Some options, and pretty much any of the following will work: Federal - Power Shok - Fusion (this is a really good round, works well, is very accurate in most guns) - Barnes TSX - Trophy Bonded Winchester - Power Point - Power Max Hornady - White Tail - SST Remington - Core Lokt | |||
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| Member |
I'll second fritz. All of those factory rounds will work very well for you. Rom 13:4 If you do evil, be afraid. For he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. | |||
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Member |
Since prices have been so crazy, I've started stocking up on Underwood ammo in all the flavors I need that they make. I still buy fmj stuff for the range, but for self defense and game I'm gonna start using their stuff. They are very well know for their dangerous game loads which I've got quite a few of in 10mm and 45-70, but their 308 stuff, any good? They have a couple different options for what they call medium and large game. Anyone used their 308? 11 years to retirement! Just waiting! | |||
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| Member |
Remington Core Lokt 150 gn. has taken a lot of deer sized animals over the years. Was widely available. Saw reasonable accuracy in several different hunting rifles of friends. | |||
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Web Clavin Extraordinaire |
Yeah, you should be able to find Core Lokt and Federal Fusion on most store shelves. A good place to start to assess which round the gun favors, since it's easy to find in enough quantity to shoot groups. ---------------------------- Chuck Norris put the laughter in "manslaughter" Educating the youth of America, one declension at a time. | |||
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| Rumors of my death are greatly exaggerated  |
No one has mentioned Nosler..acubond or Partition. I hand load Partitions and they shoot really well in many of my rifles. "Someday I hope to be half the man my bird-dog thinks I am." FBLM LGB! | |||
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| Member |
As another person stated, it really depends on the rifle:ammo combination. Maybe do a sample box of ammo. Meaning, grab 4-5 different brands, 1 box each, and include that as a gift. Let your son hash it out with his new rifle. Lapua, Nosler, Hornady, Federal, Speer, Winchester. Those are the brands I would recommend, in that order, for some good hunting ammo. My local shop happened to get in some Hornady TAP 155 Grain ELD .308 ammo. I bought 2 boxes initially to try out. It just so happened that my rifle will shoot half inch at 100 with this ammo. So I went back and bought all the rest of what they had. I have enough hunting ammo for the next couple seasons, as long as I don’t waste it on paper…….
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Hop head  |
your memory is correct sir, I recall a few older Service Rifle shooters when I started out that were still shooting M14's, and they had a pile of M118 NM ammo, some of the High Master types would pull the 173 gr NM bullets and replace them with 168's for that very reason https://www.chesterfieldarmament.com/ | |||
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| Member |
Hornady 155 ELD ammo is very accurate in my 308, and I've heard the same from other shooters. This ammo uses Hornady's ELD-M bullet, which is a match bullet. The ELD-M is essentially the successor to the Amax line. Hornady does not recommend using the ELD-M or Amax bullets on medium to large game. The bullet is very accurate, but the copper jacket and the lead core are not well bonded together. This means that they tend to separate -- causing quick expansion, fragmentation, and limited penetration. I've shot both Amax and ELD-M ammo from various calibers into soft dirt berms. The recovered bullets are often in multiple pieces, and rarely is the jacket still attached to the core. Now for varmints & smaller game, this works just fine. Amax and ELD-M ammo works quite spectacularly with really fat prairie dogs. Hornady recommends the ELD-X bullet for hunting. From the few ELD-X bullets I've dug out of berms, the bullets definitely hold together better than ELD-M and Amax. ELD-M and Amax might perform just fine on medium game, but I think it's better to use a bullet designed to expand properly in game, rather than one is optimized for flight to paper & steel targets. | |||
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| Member |
I have a deer in the freezer that disagrees with Hornady. With that being said, I was giving some general info for the OP. I’m sure he will be able to sift through the minutia of information.
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