I, like many others, have been pretty amazed at the breadth of knowledge our members have, so here goes.

I used to have all the books to look up stuff, but got rid of them and don't recall ever having one to answer this question anyhow.

I have a 97 Winchester, 20" barrel, marked cylinder, that I got from a police widow several years ago, I believe it was originally manufactured as a Riot Gun (made in 1957 IIRC), doesn't look cutdown to me.

BUT how in the heck does one determinee if it is, in fact a real riot gun or just a cut down?

Bob

This message has been edited. Last edited by: straightshooter1,

Man, I hope I didn't stump the panel.

The barrel is stamped CYL which many sites say means it was an original riot. One guy suggested Winchester may have made 97s, years ago, with longer barrels having cylinder chokes but that appears to be incorrect-uhhh, maybe, probably.

That's all I know.

Bob

All I could find was this.

Riot Gun

Solid frame or take down in 12 gauge ONLY
Full round barrel in 20" length
Cyl bored to shoot buckshot
Plain modified pistol- grip walnut stock
Grooved slide handle
Butt Plate metal and flat

Original Winchester factory records are available for this model from the Cody Firearms Museum in Cody, Wyoming, from serial number 1 thru 377999. Polishing Room serialization records are available for all serial numbers.

I read the topic this morning and was ready to answer your question but I got side tracked with planning a trip to see my parents and sister this week in Gainesville, and St Pete.

The Winchester Model 97 is the one of two shotguns that I always wanted to try out (the other being a Police Issued Ithaca).

Everything I researched this morning along with all the discussions on sites such as ar15.com and Winchester collectors state that:

From 1898 through the 1960s, Winchester offered its Model 1897 as a Riot Gun (take-down versions were added after 1935) with a cylinder-choked 20-inch barrel. There was no trigger disconnector, which meant that by holding the trigger back the gun could be slam-fired as fast as the pump could be worked. Factory riot guns have rounded muzzles and are stamped “CYL.”

One of the reasons this shotgun was so popular was due to the fact of that there was no trigger disconnect and Officers/Soldiers could slam fire the weapon.

I always wanted to try that but I know I would get knocked on my butt.

There is an article from the American Rifleman that adds some more info, and I learned some things reading it this morning. I have included the link below.

https://www.americanrifleman.o...model-1897-riot-gun/

navyshooter, I was all set to send way too much money to the Cody Museum to get the info on the gun when I noticed it said to check and see if the Museum had info. Thankfully, I did as they only have the date the serial number was applied and I already know that was '57 (IIRC). They had info on earlier made models indicating the original configuration, but, of course, not mine.

Mrap, the recoil of a 2 3/4 inc 12 gage buckshot load isn't that much and it certainly won't knock you on your backside. What can hurt is a 3 1/2 inch Magnum with a 2 ounce load and even that won't knock you on your butt, it will just hurt your shoulder if you get sloppy with your mount. Pull a 3 1/2 inch in hard and you get a thump about as hard as a good jab from a Middleweight, meaning you get a good thump but it doesn't really hurt. BTW, 8 or 10 can start to hurt but it's a rare hunter that fires off 8 or 10 rounds in succession.

As for the 97, don't rule out the use of Cylinder choked barrels in longer lengths. Because these guns were used for Skeet and other shooting events where a Cylinder choke is preferred.

quote:

Originally posted by mrapteam666:

One of the reasons this shotgun was so popular was due to the fact of that there was no trigger disconnect and Officers/Soldiers could slam fire the weapon.

I have a 16 gauge Ithaca (early ‘60s) with that feature.

I love my 97 and do slam fire it when I bring it out. It won't knock you on your butt but it will destroy the target and target frames if it's wood. I can understand what the Germans griped about in WW1. It would thoroughly suck to be on the receiving end of that in a hallway or trench.

quote:

Originally posted by Anubismp:
I can understand what the Germans griped about in WW1.

Perhaps I misunderstand your comment, but the Germans’ objection to the use of shotguns by US soldiers was that the buckshot consisted of unjacketed lead pellets and therefore they claimed that the pellets violated the Hague Convention’s prohibition against “bullets which expand or flatten easily in the human body.” Buckshot will in fact sometimes deform and flatten slightly in tissue, and so the complaint was probably technically valid. As I recall, though, the US response was that if any of their troops were treated as war criminals because they used buckshot, the US would retaliate, and the objection/threats were dropped by the Germans.

I was more just having fun with the concept. I understand their actual complaint which as you pointed out likely had some validity. Not to go off on a tangent but its odd what comes up in a war with phosgene gas and flamethrowers.

It’s hard to know sometimes.

And yes, it really is bemusing to consider how strange the old rules pertaining to weapons of war are as compared with the realities of today. That even includes small arms projectiles. We can’t have expanding bullets, but it’s perfectly all right to deliberately design them so they reliably tumble and fragment, thereby increasing their wounding effects—just as the bullets from the Dum Dum arsenal were intended to do.

Some 97s will slam fire before they are locked in battery. This can lead to a potentially deadly catastrophic failure. Mark Novak has a recent video showing what an out of battery fire can do. It would suck getting that bolt through your cheek.

Interesting food for thought. I have a 1897 and don’t fire it often my son thinks the slam fire feature is cool. I like him dropping the RCH reference at the end of the video. Lol.

quote:

Originally posted by Micropterus:
Some 97s will slam fire before they are locked in battery. This can lead to a potentially deadly catastrophic failure. Mark Novak has a recent video showing what an out of battery fire can do. It would suck getting that bolt through your cheek.

[FLASH_VIDEO]<iframe frameborder="0" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Wwp7ALBBQEg" width="560"></iframe>[/FLASH_VIDEO]

quote:

Originally posted by ElToro:
I like him dropping the RCH reference at the end of the video. Lol.

That was funny, especially his deadpan delivery. He's got one of the better channels out there and that he tosses stuff like that out there makes him not only interesting, but fun to watch. And he's right, those 1897s "have a lot of strokes on them." And there is just no metal behind that bolt like there is with an internal hammer receivered gun.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Micropterus,

A Winchester Model 12 will slam fire.

Fun with a 30” full choke and 3” shells...