Greetings all, Just meandering about “AR” type rifles and wanted to hear opinions (and facts, if ya’ got ‘em) about these two rifles. For argument sake the use of this would be for TEOTWAWKI, HD, only rifle in the stable, had it down to kids, etc.

So between these two and ONLY these two, what says the knowledgeable group about the pros and cons of each, and which you believe is a better buy and value. Thanks for your opinions.

HK makes a fine firearm, but between those two I would choose the SCAR 16S based on:
Longevity
Modularity
Tunable gas system
Replacement parts availability
Lighter weight (by ~1.3lbs)

The HK may achieve better accuracy when hot with the heavier barrel, but all of my SCARs have shown excellent accuracy for a semi-auto.

This video which includes how well the SCARs hold up to extremely high round counts at Battlefield Las Vegas is a good one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...ft8&feature=youtu.be

I own both of these.
Once the coronavirus stuff settles down you're welcome to come try them out (assuming "Raleighwood" means Raleigh, NC area)

I've customized each one of them fairly significantly however.

The scar I've SBR'd down to a 10" barrel.
Put an ACR stock on it.
Put PMM rail sections on it.
Put a magpul grip on it.
Put an aimpoint micro on it.
Put a SiCo Saker556k on it.
Put a Geissele trigger in it.

The HK is still a full 16" barrel.
Put a magpul UBR stock on it.
Put a midwest industries mlok rail on it.
Put an Elcan 1/4 optic on it.
Put a SiCo Saker556 on it.


In their basic/stock configuration... for the purposes you describe...
I'd likely go with the scar.

Reasons:
As stated above - it's lighter.
Aftermarket support for it is huge (HK has some aftermarket - but not as much).
Magazine acceptance. magpul M2s simply will not seat in the HK. They just slide right back out again.

I have both and I can give you my perspective for what it's worth.

With the SCAR, FN delivered as close as possible to the civilian market what is/was issued to the military. With that being said, it's akin to a semi-automatic military issue service rifle. It's not a target rifle nor is it intended to be. However, they have been known to be quite accurate as referenced by a 2009 article titled "On The Range" written byDavid M. Fortier in which he was shooting a 16S at 500yds using Black Hills 77gr Mk262 Mod 1 ammo, and achieved a 4.2" group. So generally, MOA is not uncommon with the 16S.

As piston guns of it's generation go, it's relatively light weight. Newer piston guns may be lighter, but overall the 16s is very manageable. They have been criticized by some because they don't have match grade triggers. Though from my experience SCAR factory triggers are no worse than any other mil-spec trigger found on a typical rack grade AR.

Fit & finish will be on par with what you'd expect from a military rifle, which is to say very good albeit not quite in the same class as a Swiss 550 or HK rifle. Internals may show some tooling chatter but externals and overall fit will be first rate. From my perspective, the SCAR is a faithful offering from a major manufacturer to offer the civilian market a military grade firearm.

The HK MR556A1 is a different animal. It's my understanding that aside from the protectionist US import ban on foreign long arms, Germany also has it's own export laws which tend to neuter any military styled semi-automatic offered to the general public. Therefore, HK elected to build the MR series of rifles domestically in the US as target rifles. From the standpoint of overall fit & finish and overall excellence, HK's MR series is probably about the finest mass produced semi-automatic currently available. Things like upper & lower fit, internal part finish and uniform anodizing, crisp laser etching and machine work are second to none with the MR rifles.

Where the MR falls short is on paper in comparison with other offerings. AR enthusiasts have a chart of "Mil-Spec" Technical Data Package requirements that many deem required specifications. For that reason, Colt is usually considered one of the top tier manufacturers of the AR. So for some, HK's choices are a major departure from what they expect in a hard use AR. HK chose to make Match Rifles, hence the moniker "MR". With that comes things like heavy unlined barrels. Vault like upper & lower fit requiring a tool to separate.

So, for those who like running and gunning, the MR556 would take a back seat to a SCAR. As a matter of fact, the MR556 actually weighs MORE than the SCAR 17s. You read that right. A 5.56 carbine that weighs more than a competing 7.62 carbine. Also, the MR556's unlined barrel is not the best choice for mag dumps and high rates of fire. Where they shine, is in the role of an accurized AR or DMR with a variable optic and bi-pod. MRs have a well deserved reputation for accuracy and repeatability. As far as factory issue triggers, I suspect most would conclude the MR will have a better trigger. So, HK recognized the limitations they were "allowed" to offer civilians and to their credit, they offered a top end AR that offers a notable upgrade in accuracy over the typical rack grade AR.

I like them both for what they bring to the table. I suspect that for most, the SCAR would be the overall best choice due to their reputation for reliability and longevity as well as them bing more handy in the field. The MR is more of a niche offering for those who are looking for a rifle that appeals to HK collectors while at the same time offering up excellent accuracy and reliability.

quote:

Originally posted by Brett B:
Longevity

quote:

Originally posted by cas:

quote:

Originally posted by Brett B:
Longevity

Yes. The number of rounds you can fire through a SCAR 16S before any parts break or wear out exceeds other comparable 5.56 rifles. For example, no AR15 pattern bolt will run 200,000 rounds in full auto without breaking. In the video link I posted the quote from the Battlefield armorer is:

quote:

We have a SCAR that we’ve had since the day we opened just over 3 years ago, that gun is in the, to be conservative 200,000 round count. And we have replaced 2 parts on the entire gun ever. One of them being a barrel, and the other one being a hammer, we broke a hammer. Other than that no gun in this entire building pound for pound, cost for cost, is cheaper to maintain than this gun. Only because it never breaks, ever. Absolutely nothing breaks.

This article summarizes some of the Battlefield findings, and it’s mentioned that the MR556 barrel starts to keyhole at 10,000 rounds, requiring a replacement.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com...s-at-a-rental-range/

This info has been well documented by the Battlefield Las Vegas threads on ARF.com over the years.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/Ar...ll/24-447078/?page=1

https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR...e/118-677135/?page=1

I picked up a lightly used MR556 a couple of years ago. I fancy myself an HK collector so I bought it really because I could add it to the collection.
What I have come to admit since then is it is a typical German work of firearms art, and craftsmanship, over built in some areas but fit and finish are there. It is the AR that I take to go shoot for the last two years. The other AR's stay in the safe.

I do not have a SCAR 16, I would like one but have just resisted since the pricing for them just seems high to me. They always seem to be hard to get and supply just has not exceeded demand yet. Now they are made in the US and I am less turned on by that given the pricing did not lower. I am told they are excellent and hope to find a good deal on one but for now I cant give you input on this one.

HK Ag

quote:

Originally posted by Brett B:

Yes. The number of rounds you can fire through a SCAR....

Okay, durability.



(11 years of service Vs. basically 57 years of service... "longevity" threw me)

Thanks guys, these réponses are what I was requesting. Now the search for a Scar 16...

Good choice. I have a thing for non AR's that take AR mags. And the inventory is lots of things including the SCAR and HK and CZ Bren and ARX and SIG and IWI and FS2000 and ACR and Steyr and...
And the best of the bunch is the SCAR by a ton.

I went SCAR 16; the MR556 is just too different from the HK416 and is a front heavy bitch in comparison.

Agree with the others. The comparison is a do it all rifle, SCAR, vs a more precision based bench gun in the HK. Each has a place, but the SCAR seems to fill your need better.

I think the Bren 2 is a better comparison to the SCAR, but not sure the data is out there yet vs what is known about the SCAR.

quote:

Originally posted by Slippery Pete:
I think the Bren 2 is a better comparison to the SCAR, but not sure the data is out there yet vs what is known about the SCAR.

I would agree, the CZ Bren 2 brings a lot to the table, but wasn't around when I had to choose.

The FN SCAR 16/17 scratches my 'strange / different' rifle itch; everything else is AR based and these days I stay away from other platforms when considering things to purchase.

I'm looking at the B&T APC223. I think if they ever come out with the 'PRO' version, I may give it a try. Although, there isn't much of a track record to speak of for those rascals just yet.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:

quote:

Originally posted by Slippery Pete:
I think the Bren 2 is a better comparison to the SCAR, but not sure the data is out there yet vs what is known about the SCAR.

I would agree, the CZ Bren 2 brings a lot to the table, but wasn't around when I had to choose.

The FN SCAR 16/17 scratches my 'strange / different' rifle itch; everything else is AR based and these days I stay away from other platforms when considering things to purchase.

I did take a look at the Bren 2, but, now looks the SCAR 16 they are not available on GB. Will have to wait this out...

I think the SCar is a great option - ive just never had the coin or the liking for FN as a company.

Fwiw, I went with the Bren 2, and love it.

quote:

Originally posted by craigcpa:
I did take a look at the Bren 2, but, now looks the SCAR 16 they are not available on GB. Will have to wait this out...

With most of these rifles, the are imported or produced in batches, so they flood in, get bought up, then aren't available for awhile. I know the SCAR 16 availability was due to FN starting full US production, which seemed to start with the SCAR 20 / 17 first but is supposed to include the 16 eventually.

quote:

Originally posted by PorterN:
Fwiw, I went with the Bren 2, and love it.

I love CZ, have a Scorpion and have come close to getting a Bren but can't justify it these days since the SCARs are SBR'ed, setup how I like them, and don't get used often enough as it is.

quote:

Originally posted by cas:

quote:

Originally posted by Brett B:

Yes. The number of rounds you can fire through a SCAR....

Okay, durability.



(11 years of service Vs. basically 57 years of service... "longevity" threw me)

you're saying a proprietary piston driven MR556 has been service for 57 years??

Cheapest I've seen a used 16 lately is $2400. Cheapest in the last year $2200.
New Bren 2 is about $1500-$1600.

I'm not convinced it's superior to the SCAR but it's cloned from it and some definitely feel it brought the SCAR 1 gen further. If the accuracy and durability are there, seems like it beats out the SCAR. As a lefty the reciprocating charging handle doesn't bother me. But the Bren fixes that which is big for some.

Wonder if those Battlefield Vegas boys have any Bren 2s getting mag dumped all day and what they'd say about em.

I don't need to keep talking about the Bren, but I've been waiting for a buy on a 16 also and this dam Bren 2 haunts me. About half the price of FN MSRP.

What's your criteria? cost, reliability, proven, aftermarket support... You pay your money and get different parts of each characteristic. That Bren for $1600 is of course a pistol. That's both a plus and a minus, but shooting it comparably will need a couple of hundred to deal with that. or maybe a lot more unobtanium if you actually want a longer barrel. I've no issue with the Bren, but its not yet proven to the same degree.