SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  Mason's Rifle Room    A live fire “dot drill” comparison of different tripod support methods, Arca and others.
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
A live fire “dot drill” comparison of different tripod support methods, Arca and others. Login/Join 
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
posted
As is often mentioned by different authorities, shooting from the prone is often impossible, especially in “field” situations. I have posted discussions of various methods of supporting a rifle when shooting from an elevated position before, but I’d never conducted a direct comparison of any of the methods. Today I got around to doing that with the results pictured below.

The test used a Ruger 77/22 rifle with an aftermarket Lilja barrel chambered for 22 Long Rifle. Ammunition was SK Standard Plus, and the combination has regularly performed very well for me. Except as described, all shots were fired under the same conditions with the targets that consist of twenty 1-inch circles on a sheet placed 50 yards from the firing position.

The first three sets were fired from the standing position with the type of support specified mounted on a large, sturdy Two Vets “Recon” tripod, but with no other support.

The last two sets were fired from the kneeling position with the type of support specified on a smaller tripod and using a set of shooting sticks at the rear to support the buttstock. The “sticks” are a large bipod that’s only held against the stock, and not attached to it.

The supports were a “PIG Saddle®” clamp, a Really Right Stuff “Anvil-30” Arca ball head, and a Precision Rifle Solutions “SSP” cradle. Links at the bottom.

Something that piqued my interest in conducting this test at long last was that the pictures of the Secret Service snipers on the roof behind President Trump at the time of the assassination attempt appeared to show that their large tripods had a PIG-type clamp on one and an Anvil-30 ball head on the other.

The PIG Saddle is a vise-like device that grips the forend of the rifle by turning a large screw to provide clamping force. The device is lined with a rubbery material to help prevent the rifle from slipping as it’s clamped in place. Even with the clamp tightened enough to hold the rifle firmly, the rubbery lining and the flex inherent in the tripod (not much) were enough to permit sufficient range of motion with the rifle to engage the 20 targets on the sheet at 50 yards and without loosening the clamp. That range of motion is greater than what’s possible with the Anvil-30 head clamped firmly enough to hold the rifle without additional support.

The Anvil-30 clamps directly to an Arca-Swiss rail on the bottom of the forend of the rifle. The ball head allows a large range of motion to aim the rifle, but only until the head is firmly clamped to lock it in place. The inherent flex in the tripod still does allow aiming at all 20 targets without loosening the head, however.

Because the Anvil-30 held the rifle the most rigidly of the three supports used, it was also the best for (my) accurate target engagement. Its rigidity does, however, mean that it’s not as good for easily engaging targets over a large area without loosening the ball, and that can be a little tricky: loosen it too much and the rifle will fall over at a significant angle and if not controlled could result in everything’s falling over to the ground.

The open PRS cradle is just that: something to rest the rifle on but with no attachment force to prevent the rifle from moving except for the “ears” on the sides. That means the cradle is the least useful in holding the rifle for precise aiming, but also permits the greatest range of aiming motion.

In short, if we know exactly where our target is or will be located, the Anvil-30 was best (for me), the PIG the second best, and the cradle the worst. On the other hand if the target might appear within a large area (arc), then reverse the order.

The results of the initial part of the test:

PIG Saddle.



Anvil-30 Arca ball head.



Precision Rifle Solutions cradle.



I also fired two strings using the PIG clamp and the Anvil-30 head, and with support at the rear for the stock by using a pair of Cabela’s shooting sticks which is just a large bipod that can be extended high enough to use when standing as well as kneeling. The two sets pictured were fired with the supports indicated and from the kneeling position with a Two Vets “Ruck” tripod. Using the Anvil-30 in the way described is a very steady position. I have regularly achieved sub-MOA two-shot groups at 200 yards on realistic anatomical targets using that method.

PIG Saddle with rear support.



Anvil-30 with rear support.



Although this was a limited test, the results were what I anticipated. It could be that the first set fired using the PIG Saddle would have been a bit better if I’d been warmed up as I was when I got to the Anvil-30 set. When aiming with the Anvil-30, though, it always seems to keep my wobble area smaller than with the PIG.

Finally, the shooter’s marksmanship abilities have a large impact on the results that can be obtained with the different types of supports for the rifles. Even the Anvil-30 with rear sticks support isn’t as steady and wobble-free as shooting from a firm bench rest or even from the prone. A more skilled shooter might be able to achieve much better results than I did with any of the supports used.

LINKS.

https://stores.hogsaddle.com/pig-saddle-gen2-arca/

https://rrssoar.com/anvil30/

https://www.precisionriflesolu...m/product-page/ssp-1




6.4/93.6
“Cet animal est très méchant, quand on l’attaque il se défend.”
 
Posts: 47776 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Good info and test. Being someone who shoots nrl22 and some prs style outlaw rimfire matches, these sorts of props come up time to time in matches. I am not a great rifle shooter but for a lot of these matches I find if I get a really solid position it makes the most difference in my score than any other factor
 
Posts: 3398 | Location: Finally free in AZ! | Registered: February 14, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
goodheart
Picture of sjtill
posted Hide Post
Thank you for the detailed test and review. At my age shooting prone is not a good option at all.
The PIG Saddle looks like the most practical.
Sorry, did you mention if you use the standard or the MOD007 PIG Saddle?


_________________________
“ What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.”— Lord Melbourne
 
Posts: 18471 | Location: One hop from Paradise | Registered: July 27, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
posted Hide Post
The “PIG Saddle Gen2 Arca” (from Amazon, but of course it’s available elsewhere as well).

I don’t know why the HOG saddle costs (over) twice as much as the PIG. The HOG has sockets for screwing to the common size tripod mounts, but I especially wanted the PIG version because it has the Arca Swiss base that’s compatible with a couple of tripods I have.

One thing about the Arca system is that there are some dimensional differences among the various manufacturers of the mounting rails. That doesn’t matter if the mounting clamp tightens with a screw, but when using a clamp with a quick detach lever, some rails can be a little large or small. The way I have my Anvil-30 head adjusted leaves the PIG base a little loose. It’s not enough to easily move it by hand, but it slid back some after firing multiple shots with a 223 during a different drill. The saddle I have also has the screw sockets in the base for use with a conventional tripod head.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07S..._dt_b_fed_asin_title




6.4/93.6
“Cet animal est très méchant, quand on l’attaque il se défend.”
 
Posts: 47776 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
As is often mentioned by different authorities, shooting from the prone is often impossible, especially in “field” situations.

This really cannot be emphasized enough. If gun owners are content to fire their weapons from stable bench or prone positions, then that's just fine & dandy. And they may get quite good at shooting in these positions. But if they wish to -- or have to -- shoot from less prepared and less stable positions, then the results might be disappointing.

The vast majority of gun-related discussions on gun sites are about equipment. That's fine, as we all buy equipment. And folks are quick to post pictures of their latest purchase. However there are few discussions of how we use equipment, how we practice, how we train, how we improve.

As my instructors regularly state:
- get off your butt (aka stop using a bench rest)
- get off your belly (aka shoot from more than just prone)
- practice what you suck at

When we challenge ourselves by moving outside our comfort zones, we can observe different challenges. And hopefully learn from them; develop new skills.

It's good to show examples of how accuracy is affected by position & support.
 
Posts: 8052 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata  
 

SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  Mason's Rifle Room    A live fire “dot drill” comparison of different tripod support methods, Arca and others.

© SIGforum 2024