This morning I loaded up some 75gr Hornady Match, 77gr SMK, and 80gr SMK. This gun shoots 55gr Vmax and 69gr SMK like a laser, but hates anything 75gr. The 77gr loads were sweet as well as the 80gr. As you can see, it did not like the 75’s. I had already shot it with 75’s and Varget, so I tried the 75’s with 4064. Same results. All groups were 5 shots at 100 yards using a 10x SWFA S/S.

Loads were:

Hornady 75gr Match
22gr IMR 4064
2.26 OAL

Hornady 75gr Match
22.5 gr IMR 4064
2.26 OAL

77gr SMK
23.5gr Varget
2.26 OAL

77gr SMK
24gr Varget.......Most accurate.
2.26 OAL

80gr SMK
23.5gr Varget.........2nd most accurate.
2.55 OAL

80Gr SMK
24gr Varget
2.55 OAL

Interesting. I've been testing some 80gr SMKs too, and my rifle seems to have a sweet spot at 24 grains of Varget.

If you are not getting sub moa from a bolt gun with optic, something is wrong!
Prior to the allowance of optics in conventional high power rifle competition groups like you posted with iron sighted A2 AR match rifles would be considered on the large side.
I have personally witnessed high master class shooters shoot A2 type AR rifles with iron sights shooting sub 2” groups at 300 yards.
One I witnessed shot a five round group from prone position you could cover with a single 1” paster at 300.

What a coincidence...my RPR also does not like Hornady 75’s. Loves 77 gr SMK’s.

I have tested numerous types of factory ammo across multiple 223 platforms. I have seen many types of ammo that exhibit poor accuracy for 5, 10, even 15 rounds following a transition. The loads which tend to transition with the least drama tend to use SMK bullets.

I recommend additional tests before settling in on your preferred load.

I find that 55 Vmax and 69 SMK tend to be very accurate at shorter distances -- say 100-200 yards -- with almost every barrel I've owned. The poor BC of the 55 Vmax means that its accuracy suffers further down range, and in winds. 69 SMK works well to 300 yards, but then takes a back seat to heavier bullets.

In a couple of my barrels, Hornady 75 takes 15 rounds to fully settle down in accuracy after FGMM 69. At that point, H-75 outshoots all 69 and 77 SMK loads at distances of 300 yards and greater.

But every barrel is different.

quote:

Originally posted by captain127:
If you are not getting sub moa from a bolt gun with optic, something is wrong!
Prior to the allowance of optics in conventional high power rifle competition groups like you posted with iron sighted A2 AR match rifles would be considered on the large side.
I have personally witnessed high master class shooters shoot A2 type AR rifles with iron sights shooting sub 2” groups at 300 yards.
One I witnessed shot a five round group from prone position you could cover with a single 1” paster at 300.

This is a bold statement. You’re basically saying all bolt guns with an optic should shoot every type of ammo into less than 1” groups or something is wrong. I’m willing to bet there are millions of bolt guns that will not shoot MOA even with an optic if it does not like a particular ammo or bullet weight. Find what it likes and all that changes. Here are the same groups from that target so that you can see it in detail. With ammo the gun liked, it was shooting sub moa. With ammo it didn’t like, the groups were larger. My optic is a fixed 10x tactical optic and not a target scope so a finer reticle would definitely help. This particular gun just does not like 75gr. I the shooter am capable as is my gun and optic with the right ammo.

P.S. I’m not doubting the shooting skills of some guys with open sights, but if they are shooting sub moa groups with the MK1 eyeball, they are cyborgs.

quote:

Originally posted by usncorpsman:
P.S. I’m not doubting the shooting skills of some guys with open sights, but if they are shooting sub moa groups with the MK1 eyeball, they are cyborgs.

Yes, it is silly to claim that any bolt action rifle equipped with an optical sight should be capable of sub-MOA groups. Countless ammunition and rifle combinations are lucky to get 2 or 3 MOA groups, even by a good shooter from a rest.

On the other hand, there is nothing incredible about shooting sub-MOA groups with iron sights—and especially, as captain127 seemed to indicate, that they were the remarkable exceptions rather than the consistent rule. Achieving a single tiny “refrigerator” group (as one member here calls them) can be nothing more than the result of chance. Anyone who doesn’t realize that has evidently not shot many groups himself, or has very selective perceptions. I have a very early M1A with what is obviously a surplus barrel with a rough bore that is probably pitted from rust. I also still have a 1-inch five shot group that I fired at 100 yards with the stock iron sights. Have I ever repeated that? No. The rifle shoots well enough for its condition, but I would be a fool to contend that a single 1-MOA group—or even several such groups—is what the gun is “capable” of.

But with an accurate rifle and good ammunition, a good shooter with the proper sights matched to the target can achieve groups that are nearly as good as with an optical sight. When I shot in small bore competitions many years ago, my iron sights consisted of two concentric circles that I centered on the circular bull’s-eye target at 50 feet. Because of how the front sight circle was sized, there was only a small amount of white paper visible around the black target. That permitted me to achieve a very precise sight picture, and very accurate shot results. Even shooting from the prone and with no other support than a sling, I often fired the equivalent of sub-MOA groups.

quote:

Originally posted by DansSIGs:
Sigfreund,
Your aperture sight picture technique at any distance was improper,since the human eye is easily fooled w/ varying light conditions at any distance.

Normally I would just ignore such an incomprehensible post, but because you addressed me directly and as you’re new here and perhaps unfamiliar with what constitutes a useful comment, I’ll provide feedback and tell you that I have no idea what you’re talking about.

quote:

Originally posted by DansSIGs:
Ruger & Precision should NOT be used in the same sentence.

I once thought that way.

I few years ago at a steel match in northeastern Colorado, one shooter in the next squad used an early RPR in 6.5CM. The guy was a little green to steel matches -- he missed a few targets due to mis-dialed elevations, transitions between targets, and wind holds. But on the less complex stages, he shot quite well. IIRC he used factory Hornady 140 AMax ammo.

At the end of the match, I asked if I could see his RPR. I got to fondle it a bit, and I shot a few rounds. My take on it:
- The RPR wasn't in the league of custom rifle builds, which use stellar actions and barrels.
- The action was noticeably loose while cycling the bolt. The bolt wobbled in the raceway and had a noticeably gritty feel. But the bolt sure seemed to lock up tight.
- The trigger was OK, but nothing special. Not the most distinct break, and a little bit of grit.
- I prefer traditional stocks, like McMillan and Manners. So the stock felt a little funky. The stock was a little light in weight, compared to the barrel and action. As a result, the rifle was noticeably nose-heavy.

But the RPR hit the targets that I shot at. Not quite as accurately as my own rifle, but good enough for a talented shooter to do really well in a steel match. Now the RPR's action won't have the life of custom actions. Its barrel won't hang with the best barrel manufacturers. Its trigger could be better. But the RPR seems to be a reasonable option for those who decide not to drop the bucks into a true custom rifle.