I recall reading that when we still had troops in combat zones, it was mandated that antireflection devices were to be left on optical sights like the M68 CCO at all times. Can anyone confirm that?

I can confirm that, in my experience, that was not the case. Some company or battalion commanders may have mandated it, but it certainly wasn't across the board.

Traditionally some things are hard for line units to get, yet the units in the rear have spares. Hard use and consumption have something to do with that, too.

Searching for pics online of combat weapons in theater gets cluttered up with vendor sites and ads, which aren't credible toward what was actually in use. Like BUIS, a lot of patrols weren't carrying any dead weight unless proven necessary. A SDM might have killflash but a street patrol PV2 may not have wanted any if available. The unit MTOE and MOS would specify it yet that was still an iffy situation +/-.

As an Ammo Handler MOS in a MP company, no I didn't get crimp pliers or a blasting cap case, I got handcuffs but only on that assignment - gate security. In the field we just carried one or two of the large cuff ty's. Darn things were always white. I also had a Surefire in a holster on gate duty, not issue. I saw a lot of variations over the years, and equipment varied by era's long passed but still in inventory. At one point "jungle boots" were not permitted in garrison but popular in the field, they got approved in black and the first series issued were defective. I got mine swapped at GTMO 2001. Duty at night some wore full leather as the heat was much less. There were nights half of us were wearing our Gore Tex by midrats.

These days one soldier might be in Scorpion, the other in labeled MC and most of the time in the field nobody even bothers to notice. And the next unit might be 100% because the Commander or the SGM in their Battalion had a burr under their saddle.

quote:

Hard use and consumption have something to do with that, too.

That is/was definitely an issue with ARDs; they are hard to keep clean too. You sacrifice optical clarity, especially if they're damaged or dirty.

As a former supplier for a military contract, we were required to include an ARD for the item, but use of it was subject to the end user to my knowledge.

In low light situations, It was noted the the ARD could reduce the optical clarity of the item, and as such it was not recommended for those conditions.

Yes, despite the claims to the contrary that I’ve seen, the honeycomb type ARD (is there any other kind?) reduces contrast and clarity and that’s what prompted my question.

Decision makers, both military and non-, aren’t always known for making the best decisions, and I could easily see some commander deciding that because the ARD was supplied that it had to be used, if for no other reason than that they’re small and easily lost. If left on the optic, that would be less likely.

I appreciate the comments.

2 deployments and I never heard of anyone mandating them. First thing I take off whenever I got an optic.

They are kinda silly in a patrol around in the wide open desert in massive armored vehicles operating environment.

In a recon unit or on a sniper team spotters weapon? Sure…

I wonder how well they work against modern optical finders.

I'd worry more about the optics on a soldiers face for eyesight correction, headlights, windshields, and watch crystals.

It was at one time a method of watch use to lace it thru the top button hole hanging upside down. You picked it up and read it. That exposed the crystal to reflections but at the time most were curved acrylic, not flat glass. In the eighties the seat belt wrist bands with a velcro flap were the solution - a poor one but it stopped reflections. When PDA's got screens large enough I bought some protectors with texture to enhance touch screen use and they also killed about 75% of the reflection. Worked pretty good for deer hunting.

Cataract surgery fixed the eyeglass problem, yet the DOD now issues ballistic eyewear for range and field use. We still have that ongoing - sunlight reflecting from a polished lens. Add a spotting scope or binoculars and it's not getting better.

Those are the realities of being in the field on a bright sunny day. Watch which way it's shining and take it into account. A scope lens can be shielded with a longer tube for the most part - a 4 inch shade is just a large "Hex" and works the same. It stops light hitting it from the side to reflect and was used long before the shorter and expensive grid material came on line. It's almost as if they invented it just to sell it.

A killflash on a scope is just one solution and it's not the worst case object in the field. The LED reflecting thru a front lens on a red dot can be seen at night - there's a milspec solution for that problem. Hunting red dots don't need it.

quote:

Originally posted by Tirod:
there's a milspec solution for that problem.

What is that? It could have applications for certain law enforcement situations that I am interested in.

And yes, reflections can be killers if fighting a sophisticated enemy. It’s something that may have to be relearned in the future, especially if reflection detection technology continues to become more prevalent and capable.

There is a Bill Mauldin cartoon about a couple of soldiers in World War II who are about to drive their jeep into the Third Army’s area of operations and how they would be subject to a substantial fine if the windshield was up in its normal position rather than folded down and covered to prevent reflections from the glass. I think of that from time to time when I see a reflection from vehicle glass on a mountainside miles away. If I were a prowling Bf 109 pilot looking for a target, that reflection would guide me directly to it.

But FWIW, and depending upon such things as the size of the objective lens(es), a typical honeycomb ARD will stop the reflection at a smaller off-angle axis than something like a 4 inch lens shade. In addition, the ARD is far more compact than a useful lens shade. The lens shade is good, and there are other ways to limit reflections such as just covering up most of the lens, but I don’t believe the killFlash type device was just developed as a way of satisfying corporate greed.

I have a similar setup to what you have pictured, on my AR10 "DMR". It was actually a result of tinkering with the March "modifier disc" concept discussed in your other thread. I have a flip-up cover, with a reduced aperture cut in it, mounted on the end of my sunshade. I honestly never gave it the thought, that it was also further reducing my reflective signature. Bonus.

Even without the danger of reflection detection technology, some WWII German snipers took measures to reduce their possible signature.

I had an ARD on my Night Force ATACR. I believe it was made by Tennebrex. I lost clarity and brightness in the scope. I weighed the benefits and draw backs and came to the conclusion that while getting compromised in an LE situation can be deadly and destroy an operational plan. Having a clear scope with excellent light gathering ability like I had prior to the ARD, was a better result than the risk of compromise.