A friend contacted me and has an opportunity to buy an AR-180, although he hasn't seen it yet and doesn't know much about this particular rifle. (I'm assuming this is a real-deal pre-ban and not an AR-180 B)

I've never handled or shot an AR-180, but have read a few articles on them. I seem to recall a few members having mentioned them over the years and so I'm hoping to get some input from those with experience.

Accuracy, reliability, mag availability, parts availability...the good, the bad, the ugly, any dope on this rifle will be appreciated.

I've noticed some aftermarket firing pins for these...is there a problem with the firing pin?

There are a couple for sale on GB however none have any bids at this time and there is a spread in opening bid prices. Even the de-milled one listed is fairly expensive.

My friend is concerned about making a fair offer on this rifle and wants to avoid insulting the owner, who we are both friends with. I realize that without having more info on the rifle it is difficult to estimate its worth, but even a ball park value would be helpful.

Do the various AR-180 mfrs. (Armalite, HOWA, Sterling) influence the value or are they all about the same? Is one make preferred over the others or are they about the same?

I researched these a few years ago. My conclusion was to get a Howa as first pick, then the Sterling.

These are 1/12 twist rifles and the magazines are tough to find so I passed. AR15 magazines can certainly be modified for use. I'm in CO and vendors won't ship magazines here.

Check for stress fractures around the buttstock hinge, I've seen rifles with this problem, I didn't check with a gunsmith to see if it could be repaired.

great rifles with limited parts availabliity,

uppers are supposedly interchangeable with the newer 10B's,

BCG parts are hard to find, so give them a good look over,

my AR-18 will hold a nice group at 200
(shooting steel, target was about the size of a sheet of paper)

they were made for M193 or equivalent ammo,


mags are out there, it is very simple to modify AR15 mags (I've done a few dozen)

if you need a scope, you are limited if you want to use a peroid correct one, , the originals are expensive and they use a proprietary mount,

stormwerks makes an aftermarket mount for them,


http://stormwerkz.com/scope-mo...180-scope-mount-mrd/


here is a blog/website with some info


http://ar180s.com/armalite-ar-...-production-numbers/



guy named Pete Fleis is the go to guru for parts etc, his contact can be found on several forums when you do a search

A number of these will have bolt hold open broke. My experience these are impossible to find.
The last time i looked for one, the part was runnig about $150. P.s. tge best version was the Costa Mesa
Ca made followed by the Howa and then the Sterling. The bayonet lug kn the Howa I think was neutered. There was a number of parts kits imported and some homebuilt out there.

I bought a Sterling manufactured AR180 and the quick attach/detach 3X scope in 1980. Right away, I had to send it to Armalite in Costa Mesa to weld a crack in the bulkhead on the lower receiver. There was a little movement between the upper and lower units so I made a shim to eliminate that movement. AR180 specific magazines were expensive so I modified inexpensive AR15 surplus mags which worked very well. I really liked the overall design, especially the scope attachment system and the way the stock folded. I kept it a few years and fired about 2000 rounds through it. Perhaps it was just my particular rifle but accuracy beyond 150 yards was disappointing...4-6 inch groups at 200 yards with a good rest. At shorter ranges it handled quite well, was quick to get on target and accuracy was quite satisfactory. Two of my friends each had Sterling AR180's and they exhibited similar group sizes at 200 yards. I eventually traded mine for a Colt AR15 HBar. As elmer stated, Costa Mesa models were highest quality followed by Howa. I think there were many more Sterlings made than either Armalite or Howa. On the rare occasions that I've seen a Howa example the price was very high. I've never seen an Armalite model. I expect they are even more rare than Howa models. The AR180 has a lot of "cool factor" which is sometimes plenty of reason to own a particular gun.

I had one for a couple of years in the mid 80s. It ran fine and I liked the folding stock. I think mine was a Howa. I traded it for a G93.
It was a popular gun with the IRA.

I have a Howa and love it. You must be careful with the bolt hold open when cleaning it.Also the Howa has a different safety pattern than the Sterling or Costa Mesa models.

Yes, the values vary. The AR180B's sell for $900-1200 and have the polymer lower (these were 1990's guns). The original style are definitely higher priced....though deals can be found. Costa Mesa guns were hand-assembled and cost the most. I think Howa's are rare enough that its hard to tell pricing for sure but Sterling guns can be had under $2K. A LGS near me has a mint Sterling with extra mags for $1600...been there a year on consignment.

Here's mine...its a handy little gun

The AR-180Bs were also US made ban-era guns with a muzzle brake integral with the barrel, a non-folding polymer stock, and used a polymer modified to accept standard AR mags. There were also some other changes like the deletion of the dust cover, and a straight bolt handle instead of the cranked one on the original AR-180. They had some of the features of the original AR-180, but weren’t really clones or reproductions. More of an attempt to capitalize on the name by a company that bought the Armalite name and had little to do with the original Costa Mesa company. If people are getting $900-$1200 for these guns, some is making a killing, because they were sold for about half the price and weren’t terribly popular. They are pretty much the Sig 556 to the SAN 551.

I managed to pick up a Costa Mesa AR-180 with the original Armalite 3x20 scope and cover, manual, and one factory 20 rd mag some years ago, and it was fairly pricey, considering the finish was mostly gone.

Some really good input everyone, I very much appreciate it!

PGT, I appreciate the pics! If anyone else has pics of the AR-180 or AR-180 B, or accessories, or any related items, please do post them up!

elmer brought up a point I hadn't considered in my research on these...parts kits and homebuilds. How does one determine if the rifle is built from a parts kit or is a home build?

Also, in my research, I came across one rifle that had both Howa and Costa Mesa markings. Did Armalite act as the importer of the Howa and Sterling guns or could I be looking at a parts gun?

Speaking of markings, are there any markings to be aware of or that are more desirable than others?

Like in the above picture, the markings say Manufactured for Armalite Costa Mesa, CA by Sterling, England. This is a Sterling AR-180. The HOWA guns have similar markings that reference Armalite in Costa Mesa but manufactured by HOWA in Japan, although arranged differently along the side of the upper.

HOWA gun: http://ar180s.com/wp-content/u...180leftsideclose.jpg

The Costa Mesa guns only say Costa Mesa.

http://ar180s.com/wp-content/u.../12/AR180-Serial.jpg

The Sterling guns were most numerous, and usually had a black finish instead of a park gray, and rougher welds than the HOWA or Costa Mesa guns as they were mass produced.

quote:

Originally posted by Dwill104:
Like in the above picture, the markings say Manufactured for Armalite Costa Mesa, CA by Sterling, England. This is a Sterling AR-180. The HOWA guns have similar markings that reference Armalite in Costa Mesa but manufactured by HOWA in Japan, although arranged differently along the side of the upper.

HOWA gun: http://ar180s.com/wp-content/u...180leftsideclose.jpg

The Costa Mesa guns only say Costa Mesa.

http://ar180s.com/wp-content/u.../12/AR180-Serial.jpg

The Sterling guns were most numerous, and usually had a black finish instead of a park gray, and rougher welds than the HOWA or Costa Mesa guns as they were mass produced.

Dwill104 thanks for posting the Costa Mesa and Howa pics, I had found an example of a Howa gun in my research but this is the first Costa Mesa version I've seen.

So, as I suspected, Armalite acted as the importer for the other makers AR-180s.

What is that protruding lug from the left side of the mag well? Some sort of sling attachment point?

Its a lock pin for the folding stock.

Armalite was a small company and didn’t have the facilities to mass produce rifles, so they contracted with other manufacturers. That’s why they sold the rights to the AR-15 to Colt. The AR-18 was meant to be an improvement on the AR-15, which was then having problems in the early days, as well as being easier/cheaper to manufacture. First HOWA was contracted, but that didn’t last long as Japan adopted a policy of not selling arms to belligerents in the Vietnam war. Then the bulk of production moved to England, but by the time production got going, the AR-15/M16’s early issues had mostly been solved and the AR-18/-180 fell by the wayside.

good info here:

https://www.ar15.com/forums/ge...80/5-1537182/?page=1

have you found out if its a -B or an 'original' ??


https://www.americanrifleman.o...e-armalite-ar-18180/


also

https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar...nformation/2-482327/



(cross posting for technical information)


--------------------------------------

I appreciate this thread for all the informative comments and links to more information.... so thank you Modern Day Savage for starting it.

I'm now under the impression that the Howa models are generally considered to be better quality than the original Armalite AR180's.

Learning that total production by all manufacturers totaled just over 20,000 helps explain the huge prices these rifles are selling for now. It makes me wish I'd kept mine. I believe I paid around $270. The scope was about $100.

quote:

Originally posted by Dwill104:
Armalite was a small company and didn’t have the facilities to mass produce rifles, so they contracted with other manufacturers. That’s why they sold the rights to the AR-15 to Colt. The AR-18 was meant to be an improvement on the AR-15, which was then having problems in the early days, as well as being easier/cheaper to manufacture. First HOWA was contracted, but that didn’t last long as Japan adopted a policy of not selling arms to belligerents in the Vietnam war. Then the bulk of production moved to England, but by the time production got going, the AR-15/M16’s early issues had mostly been solved and the AR-18/-180 fell by the wayside.

the 180 (well, actually the 18) was designed so 3rd world countries or countries that did not have the tech or $$$ to invest in investment casting and/or forging (how the AR15 was made) could make them using less expensive machinery

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSig:
Its a lock pin for the folding stock.

Ah, ok, thanks. The HK 9X series has a clip mounted in the same general location for use with their slings, but I've never seen a folding stock retention lug mounted in this location. Looks like it might be be a source of annoyance for those who sling their rifles.

quote:

Originally posted by Sig209:
good info here:

https://www.ar15.com/forums/ge...80/5-1537182/?page=1

have you found out if its a -B or an 'original' ??


https://www.americanrifleman.o...e-armalite-ar-18180/


also

https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar...nformation/2-482327/



(cross posting for technical information)


--------------------------------------

I haven't heard back from my friend yet and so don't know which model rifle it is yet.

I had previously read the American Rifleman AR-180 article, which had some basic generic info... But those ARF.com threads, especially the last one had some really interesting and helpful info. I'm starting to understand the appeal to using either the 180B or aftermarket lowers with original uppers for owners who choose to shoot their rifles.

Some of the aftermarket folding stock options look like they might be improvements over the factory original.

Thanks for those links.

quote:

Originally posted by PGT:
Yes, the values vary. The AR180B's sell for $900-1200 and have the polymer lower (these were 1990's guns). The original style are definitely higher priced....though deals can be found. Costa Mesa guns were hand-assembled and cost the most. I think Howa's are rare enough that its hard to tell pricing for sure but Sterling guns can be had under $2K. A LGS near me has a mint Sterling with extra mags for $1600...been there a year on consignment.

Here's mine...its a handy little gun

Is it just me or does that FSB appear to have been replaced at some point? There looks to be some clamping marks and the pins are oversized. Not that it really matters if the rifle functions fine but I've never seen one like that.

Sterling guns are the roughest of the 3 makes and least desirable, but also the most commonly seen.