This topic started to surface in the thread about shooting an MSR from one’s nondominant shoulder, but it occurred to me that it warranted its own discussion rather than drift off there.

There was at least one reasonably well-known incident in which an LEO continued a fight by operating and firing a long gun after one arm was disabled. That was during the infamous 1986 attempt by the FBI to arrest two bank robbers in Miami. The FBI agent used a slide action shotgun that he operated with one hand to fire several rounds.

First, let me admit that I haven’t fired a long gun using just one hand very much myself, but some things that I’ve thought about:

A semiautomatic weapon would be much better to have in such a situation than something like a slide action shotgun that must be manually operated to fire more than one shot.

Lots of ammunition available. The idea of suppressive fire in a civilian situation is roundly criticized by most authorities who give it any thought, but if we’re faced with (a) determined attacker(s) being able to keep up sustained fire could be important. That’s especially true when our accuracy may be less than desired.

Aiming aids. If we can’t use the sights in a normal manner, having a laser or focused weapon mounted light can improve our accuracy over just trying to point the gun in the general direction of the target. The question is if we can activate the aid if one hand is disabled (hint: momentary tape switches won’t do).

Supporting the weapon. Even if one hand is disabled, if we can support the front of the weapon with our forearm then it can be fired in a nearly normal manner. If one arm is completely disabled, then we should try to find something else to support the gun on. Something to consider is lying on one’s back and supporting the gun on our knees. The disadvantage of that is of course that it limits our mobility.

If we don’t have any artificial support available, then we must find a way of holding the weapon on target with one hand. Being old and somewhat decrepit, the only way I can hold up my primary defensive LE6920 with WML, Aimpoint sight, sling, and loaded 30-round magazine is to tuck the stock under my armpit. A lighter gun with shorter barrel would be better to have in such a situation.

How would we handle and shoot a “Shockwave”-type firearm using just one hand?

Ambidextrous controls. If we’re limited to using our right hand, can we operate the charging handle of our MSR, especially if we’re injured and exhausted? If we’re using our left hand, are we proficient with operating the firing selector? How does all that affect operating our shotgun of choice?

Recoil. When trying to control a weapon that’s already hard to handle with one hand and especially when firing multiple shots, lower recoil is our friend.

What other factors do we need to consider if we were faced with operating and shooting a long gun using just one hand?

And lastly, do you practice any of that yourself?
Comments?

I read your thread in the other post.

Would having one arm out of service make your sidearm more desirable even with a functioning long gun? Especially if it's your off hand that's out of service. That's assuming one has a sidearm. But if youve taken your rifle to a fight chances are pretty good you've got a pistol.

To keep with your question, NO, and I'm not sure I ever would. Perhaps if one day I thought I was proficient enough with two hands. And that's not meant to be smart-ass, I'm not sure if that training would make the cost to benefit ratio considering limited and costly ammunition these days, range time limitations.

If I was shooting on someone else's dime or ammo, like say the military I'd consider it. But for the average person I'd never think it was beneficial.

I guess there could be some merit in a few rounds to know what to expect, but the amount of time one would need to practice to become proficient seems excessive.

I'm thinking if you had to go one handed, and couldn't couldn't use the other for support (not control, thinking of a nub type second arm), then you're limited to whatever is in the magazine or tube. Shooting would be hard enough, reloading near impossible and probably enough downtime that your dead if not alone.

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:
Would having one arm out of service make your sidearm more desirable even with a functioning long gun?

Yes, I believe it would be better to transition to a handgun if it became impossible to use both hands to operate and fire a long gun, but this question assumes that a sidearm isn’t available. That could be because one simply didn’t have a handgun, and from the many posts I’ve seen here about using a long gun for in-home defense, that seems to be very likely. The other common reason if one were using a high security holster and one’s dominant hand was disabled that it simply wasn’t possible to draw the handgun.

So this discussion is about the possibility of having no option but to use a long gun.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:
Would having one arm out of service make your sidearm more desirable even with a functioning long gun?

Yes, I believe it would be better to transition to a handgun if it became impossible to use both hands to operate and fire a long gun, but this question assumes that a sidearm isn’t available. That could be because one simply didn’t have a handgun, and from the many posts I’ve seen here about using a long gun for in-home defense, that seems to be very likely. The other common reason if one were using a high security holster and one’s dominant hand was disabled that it simply wasn’t possible to draw the handgun.

So this discussion is about the possibility of having no option but to use a long gun.

I'm tracking,didn't wanna side track but that was my first thought in the other thread reading your post.

If given it's my only option I damn sure want an AR style rifle. A pump shotgun has been taught to me by Sarah Connor but always runs out one round before the target is neutralized.

I'd do my best, I'm sure we've all mag dumped or shot enough 1 handed to now what to expect but I wouldn't out any money on me hitting the target.at a minimum I wouldn't want to die with rounds left.

quote:

especially if we’re injured and exhausted?

The exhausted part of that is a huge factor in all aspects of training. I know a lot of guys on here have had a good bit of LE/MIL training and/or shoot matches that induce fatigue, and know what I mean. Anyone who hasn't conducted practice under conditions that create exhaustion should definitely add it to their regimen, if possible.

quote:

merit in a few rounds to know what to expect

I have found this is a very valid approach. Try as many realistic scenarios as you can think of at least once (and then probably a couple more times, in an effort to do it better), so that you have at least a previous experience to draw from. If it ever happens in real life, at least you've been there once before, and can approach the problem with a mitigated level of panic/stress.

I once had a pheasant's neck in my left hand when my dog flushed another pheasant, so I rested the shotgun forearm on the pheasant's head and shot the one that flushed.

Does that count?

quote:

Originally posted by KSGM:
If it ever happens in real life, at least you've been there once before, and can approach the problem with a mitigated level of panic/stress.

I agree with this. Some things don’t require a lot of practice to develop an adequate level of proficiency and having a bit of experience can make the difference between panicked brain freeze and doing something.

quote:

Originally posted by Flash-LB:
Does that count?

And yes, I would say that counts in the broad sense that I posed.

I wouldn't say I've practiced it, but I've fired many rounds shouldered, one handed with semi auto shotguns.

I seriously doubt I would completely operate one of my precision rifles with only one hand. They're too darned heavy. Now aiming the rifle and breaking shots with only my trigger hand on the rifle -- that I've done.

Blue Steel Ranch -- JP Rifles' home for the Steel Safari and Team Safari rifle matches. Two of the finest rifle competitions anywhere. There are three courses, with 7-ish stages per course -- designated North, West, and South.

Steel Safari occurs in the middle of the summer, with the first competitors heading out at 6am. The first two stages of North course are set up such that the sun is just over the horizon at 1 o'clock from the shooter, for the first handful of shooters of the day. Yep, sun in the eye, especially for right handed shooters. When I was unlucky enough to draw early positions on North, I had to hold my baseball cap in my left hand over the right side of the scope to shield my eyes, with the wild hope of hitting targets. No hand on the rear bag (if prone), no stability support for the tripod (if kneeling), crappy vision. Those stages generally don't go well for me.

Team Safari occurs in the fall. The sun is just over the horizon on stage 2 of South course for an early draw. Generally, 3 of the stage's 6 targets are directly under the sun. You might even need to shoot with the sun visible in your scope. Offgrid and I drew an early start one year. I was AR guy and shot first. In order to block the sun, I shot with my left hand either just off the edge of the scope or a couple fingers between my eye and the ocular.

Offgrid shot second -- "Hey dude, the sun sucks." Yeah, tell me something I don't know, bucko. As precision guy, offgrid had only one shot per target, so we had to make his count. He needed both hands on the rifle. I ended up standing in front of his prone position, feet just forward of his bipod legs, straddling his rifle barrel. This sorta, kinda blocked the sun for him.

South's stage 2 isn't much better at 6-7 am in the Steel Safari, either. Had to shoot kneeling from a tripod into the sun one year. Shielded my eyes from the sun with my baseball cap, essentially shooting free recoil with a 6.5 Creedmoor. Not my best results.

Not truly one handed shooting, but as close as I ever want to get.

Yes. I've had the experience of needing one hand briefly free while the other was shouldering a patrol rifle. It comes up more often than you might think.

I'm not saying I run targets out to a hundred yards, but I've fired a few strings at "Oh shit" distances with a rifle tucked into my shoulder one handed. It's one area a SBR is a definite advantage.

quote:

Originally posted by copaup:
I've had the experience of needing one hand briefly free while the other was shouldering a patrol rifle. It comes up more often than you might think.

It's one area a SBR is a definite advantage.

Or a bullpup, which are noticeably easier to maneuver and keep on target one-handed.


We had briefly T&E'd a Tavor for potential use as patrol rifles, with a thought towards that.

However, the cons ended up outweighing the potential pros.

My one handed shotgun work has all been with what is probably the worst option, a 28” barrel and +7 mag tube.

The first time I did it was back when weak hand loading was still king in competition. Mid stage I went to my belt for more shells and realized the barrel was pointing right at target. “Might as well pull the trigger!” I did and it pleased me. lol from then on (until weak hand loaded was surpassed by dual and quad loading) I’d do it whenever possible. Mostly because I got a kick out of it and it was a crowd pleaser of sorts. Also thought it a useful though unlikely to be deployed skill of being able to shoot mid reload if need be.

A few other “one handers” rifle and shotgun were “If if grab this and lean way out here, I can hit that target one handed and not have to run way over there.” Again more of a “just to see if I can do it” than a sound tactic or time saver.