So what are the current options in an AR 9mm?

What's dead reliable and doesn't cost appendages?

And yes, this thread is useless without pix.

I don't' know your criteria about the cost of appendages. Mostly I hear that they can be sold for big money. I love 9mm AR's. I have quite a few. I start with a Factory Colt 6951. That is probably the benchmark for reliability. Then I either fit a decent handguard to the factory barrel or just plain build a new upper using factory parts. 10and 10's of thousands of rounds and no issues. Metalform mags. I simply cannot remember a failure that was not ammo with a good primer hit that didn't work.
There are lots of good rifles, JPE and CMMG I have as well, but really the basic Colt is the benchmark.

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:
I don't' know your criteria about the cost of appendages. Mostly I hear that they can be sold for big money. I love 9mm AR's. I have quite a few. I start with a Factory Colt 6951. That is probably the benchmark for reliability. Then I either fit a decent handguard to the factory barrel or just plain build a new upper using factory parts. 10and 10's of thousands of rounds and no issues. Metalform mags. I simply cannot remember a failure that was not ammo with a good primer hit that didn't work.
There are lots of good rifles, JPE and CMMG I have as well, but really the basic Colt is the benchmark.

Good response.

I guess really I'm looking at what is a really solid, dead reliable, available, non-Collector-priced" gun.

Maybe the Colt is the only option, I don't know, but I'm thinking it has a heavy markup due to it being a Colt and sort of the "original" upon-which others are compared.

I'm wondering if there is a really good, solid, working 9mm that absolutely functions, but isn't subject to that theoretical markup?

Do you consider the MPX an AR style 9mm? It can be had in carbine, pistol, or if you want to get spiffy, sbr.

Mine is a carbine, and it is sppppppiiiiify... I love shooting it.

9MM ARs can be finicky. I have one, an SBR I built with Colt Pattern mags.

It has been reliable but I'd chose a CZ Scorpion Evo any day and twice on sundays over a 9MM AR. Lighter, typically more inexpensive, and reliable.

Palmetto State Armory could be your friend. I've built two of their Colt magazine fed AR-9 kits (one carbine and one 10.5 inch pistol) and they both run like sewing machines... SINGER sewing machines.
I consider PSA's offerings to be about the best AR-9s around that actually run and don't cost 4 digits. Significantly less, in fact.

What are your requirements? I know you get "out" quite a bit.

Are you looking for a 16" barreled carbine or are you looking for something compact that will fit in a backpack?
Are you planning to do some hunting/critter control or will it just be a range gun.
What about suppressors? Some suppress well and some will gas you out.
Are you planning to build it or buy it already built?

10.5" is optimal for a 9mm. You get a significant velocity boost over a handgun with that barrel length. After that length you usually start getting diminishing returns with a standard 9mm cartridge.
Colt's original 9mm SMG debuted with a 10.5" barrel. From what I read, they spent a lot of time working out the barrel length.

I think you're looking for build specifics so you can decide which way you want to go?

Today's AR9's give you two main options; Colt mags or Glock mags. I don't like the looks of the angled Glock mags and prefer the Colts mags. However, if you already have a bunch of Glock mags, then the choice is simple. The Glock mags are cheaper too. Colt mag lowers will give you a last shot bolt hold open. Some Glock mag lowers will allow that and some wont.
You also have a choice of going with a dedicated lower or using a mag well insert. Most magwell inserts are setup for Colt mags.

Keep in mind that this is a 'closed bolt, blowback' gun and you can get pretty much any load to run by fiddling with the bolt/buffer weight and/or the spring rates.

I built mine for our club's pistol caliber carbine matches and so reliability was the main factor in my choice of parts. I started out with a PSA 9mm AR pistol lower (9mm buffer and carbine spring) and a 10.5" barreled PSA upper (with a forward assist and ejection port door). It ran OK but then I started having ejection issues. A simple tweak of the extractor fixed that but the 10.5" heavy barrel on that lower didn't balance well. By now reliability was not an issue anymore but the handling was. I also experienced some strange recoil impulses due to the buffer bottoming out.


This was the first incarnation. I didn't care for the KAK brace very much.
It functioned as designed but tended to move around after extended shooting sessions.

I tried another PSA 10.5" pistol with a lighter handguard and a slick side upper receiver but the heavier barrel just didn't handle like I wanted it to.

I decided to get a lighter barrel and settled for a 7" finned stainless barrel and a nitrided bolt from Spinta Precision. This turned out to be a fortuitous decision as Spinta bent over backwards to get me going. I had a fit issue with the feed ramp on one of the PSA colt lowers and Spinta got me another bolt that alleviated the issue. This was a PSA issue as even the PSA bolt got hung up occasionally. Spinta contacted me several times to make sure that I was up and running. I was impressed as they didn't know me from Adam. Their barrels are also threaded 1/2-28, instead of the more common 9mm threading of 1/2-36. I also bought a linear compensator from Spinta Precision.

Since a 9mm AR is a blowback gun, there is no barrel extension and the bolt butts right up to the chamber. You will lose a half inch of length compared to a .223 barrel, so keep that in mind when you choose a handguard. I chose a slim, lightweight 7.5" handguard (AR Stoner free float M-Lok handguard) from Midwaysusa. Since the Spinta linear compensator gives you an inch more length after it is threaded on, it stick out a half inch from the end of the handguard. Another advantage of a linear compensator is that it doesn't have to be timed just so. A word of caution about this handguard, it is slightly less than 1.5" i.d. so a suppressor with a diameter of more than that will not fit. I added a Magpul M-Lok handstop kit to the handguard.

I replaced the buffer and spring with a captive unit from Armaspec (SRS-9 stealth recoil system). This was the icing on the cake and smoothed out the gun quite a bit. This also allowed me to eliminate the weight in the 9mm bolt which lowered the amount of mass sliding back and forth when the gun was operating. The upper receiver I have on now is from CMMG that Primary Arms had on sale. It already had the half door and gas deflector. It is a gas deflector and not a case deflector.


This is the pistol as it is now. The SB Tactical SBA3 brace is a huge improvement over the KAK brace.
The reliability is 100 percent now and I actually won a match with it at one of our last events.
Hitting an 8" plate at 100 yards offhand is no sweat, thanks to the Vortex SPARC and ALG combat trigger.
One word about the Colt mags; Metalform runs 100 percent.

I built mine on a CMMG colt pattern lower. It has morphed several times (I think that is a requirement for an AR), but has settled as a 5.5" pistol.

I have around $1k in it, and yes, I could have bought one off of the shelf for that. This was all about the fun of building one from scratch for me.

As RHINOWSO said, they can be quite finicky. I got lucky with mine, but did a lot of homework before buying all of the parts. The only hiccup I ran into was a badly cut feed cone on the barrel I bought. After a trip to Macon Armory, it has been 100% for thousands of rounds, and eats anything.

Best of all, it is fun as hell to shoot!

It's current config:

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
I'd chose a CZ Scorpion Evo ....

I have no interest in a 9mm shoulder fired weapon myself, but a friend has a Scorpion and after he upgraded the trigger and safety lever, it is an impressive gun: completely reliable, and many <2 inch offhand groups at 25 yards.

The CZ is a great little gun but he specifically asked about AR9's.

For AR-9s, my first piece of advice is you can only have two from the following list:

a. Uses Glock mags
b. LRBHO (that is reliable)
c. Is reasonably priced.

For mine, I chose a and c.


I, along with several friends/associates have AR-9s from Palmetto State Armory. One of them uses "Colt" style mags, and the rest of use Glock mags. All have been flawless, and all were much less expensive than other options.

The advantage to the Colt style mags is you get a last round bolt hold open, and it doesn't cost a fortune.

If you want an AR-9 pistol with a brace, and want to use Glock mags, this is a smoking deal:
https://palmettostatearmory.co...stol-5165449198.html

If you want a rifle, or want "Colt" style mags, right now you'll have to buy an upper and lower separately.

Currently they have this upper in stock:
https://palmettostatearmory.co...g-ch-5165449632.html

They have a bunch of lowers in stock:
https://palmettostatearmory.co...ar-9/ar9-lowers.html

Without a few adjustments AR-9s will cycle a little harsh, but it's easy and fairly cheap to smooth out.

A heavier and longer buffer will help. I used this: https://www.joeboboutfitters.c...uffer-7.5-9mm-ss.htm

An AR-10 flatwire buffer spring helps a ton. I used this: https://www.larue.com/products...r-25-buffer-springs/

With the longer/heavier buffer, and the upgraded buffer spring, the cycling is much smoother. While not as soft cycling as an MP5, it's much smoother than my M4.

I went with a Glock style lower on mine, and therefore sacrificed the LRBHO. My pals and I have shot a wide variety of ammo (everything from 115gr and 124gr FMJ, to 124gr Speer GDHP and 147gr Hydra-Shok HP), and in the Glock lowers we used both Glock OEM and Magpul mags. Not a single hiccup from any of them.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
9MM ARs can be finicky. I have one, an SBR I built with Colt Pattern mags.

It has been reliable but I'd chose a CZ Scorpion Evo any day and twice on sundays over a 9MM AR. Lighter, typically more inexpensive, and reliable.

^^^^^
I would simply add the Beretta Cx4 Storm is insanely reliable and very accurate and uses the same magazines as the Beretta 92 series. It or the CZ Scorpion would be be choice. Not what you asked for but advice is free on the forum.

This is a Rock River Arms lower with a Rock River Arms Colt pattern conversion block in the magwell, and it uses 32 round Metalform Colt pattern magazines. It wears a locally sourced 16 inch upper, because it left the factory as a "rifle" lower and I can't convert it to a pistol.

It has been absolutely reliable even with plinking ammo, and is surprisingly accurate. Including the magazines, I have around $900 in it.

If I were to build another one, I would do a dedicated PSA Colt pattern pistol lower with a brace and 10.5" PSA upper. You don't get much more ballistically out of the 9mm after 10.5 inches, so the 16 I have is just extra weight.

ETA: The forward assist on this gun is non-functional, as 9mm BCGs aren't machined for it. 9mm ARs use a heavier buffer and spring, and are straight blowback. There is no locking or camming at the bolt face, and no gas system under the rail.

Mine runs with zero issue.
Anderson lower with PSA magblock
Colt LPK
Rainier Upper
Rock River BCG
Rock River 9mm buffer
KAK barrel
Troy Rail

I have a dedicated 9mm lower that I’ll build eventually.
Also have a preorder of the Endomags to try once they are released.

Lots in this thread. But lots of the answer really depends on things you don't say. Do you want to buy a complete gun or build one? Does "dead reliable" mean you want to use the gun for serious work?
If you actually need a gun to run I stand by my original suggestion that you get a factory Colt. It is the most proven of all the possible options by far. There are other builders of good 9mm ar's guns like Wilson, CMMG and JP, and some that are slightly cheaper like RR, but without any other criteria there simply isn't any reason to not get the colt. Building one is a whole different situation and you have as been discussed many vendor, mag, bolt, trigger options. And in 9mm not all of them play well so you are doing your own testing. I've had several glock mag AR's and they simply don't make the grade on "dead reliable", but that's just my experience. I've built a number of colt pattern ones and with the right parts they can be very reliable. If what you want is a 9mm rifle then there are lots of other options. I have used and tested mostly in competition many of the available choices. MPX, CZ, UZI, PTR, Keltec, Beretta CX4, X95. If your serious you can delete keltec, PTR, Uzi, and IWI immediately. Of the rest after many thousands of competition rounds the best gun is actually the MPX, then CZ. If price is important then the CZ wins as the best price/performance. FWIW.

I have a PSA that takes Glock mags and I love it. Had an issue with feeding using some old Blazer ammo once but never a problem with any other loads. Accuracy was good too. I had my SPARC zeroed at 25 yards in four shots. Standing unsupported I was getting baseball size groups every time. Worked great with Glock factory and Magpul 15 round mags.

From cheapest to most expensive:
1) CZ scorpion
2) PWS just came out with a new model and they typically make very solid stuff
3) MPX
4) B&t APC

quote:

Originally posted by DMF:
For AR-9s, my first piece of advice is you can only have two from the following list:

a. Uses Glock mags
b. LRBHO (that is reliable)
c. Is reasonably priced.

For mine, I chose a and c.


I, along with several friends/associates have AR-9s from Palmetto State Armory. One of them uses "Colt" style mags, and the rest of use Glock mags. All have been flawless, and all were much less expensive than other options.

The advantage to the Colt style mags is you get a last round bolt hold open, and it doesn't cost a fortune.

If you want an AR-9 pistol with a brace, and want to use Glock mags, this is a smoking deal:
https://palmettostatearmory.co...stol-5165449198.html

If you want a rifle, or want "Colt" style mags, right now you'll have to buy an upper and lower separately.

Currently they have this upper in stock:
https://palmettostatearmory.co...g-ch-5165449632.html

They have a bunch of lowers in stock:
https://palmettostatearmory.co...ar-9/ar9-lowers.html

Without a few adjustments AR-9s will cycle a little harsh, but it's easy and fairly cheap to smooth out.

A heavier and longer buffer will help. I used this: https://www.joeboboutfitters.c...uffer-7.5-9mm-ss.htm

An AR-10 flatwire buffer spring helps a ton. I used this: https://www.larue.com/products...r-25-buffer-springs/

With the longer/heavier buffer, and the upgraded buffer spring, the cycling is much smoother. While not as soft cycling as an MP5, it's much smoother than my M4.

I went with a Glock style lower on mine, and therefore sacrificed the LRBHO. My pals and I have shot a wide variety of ammo (everything from 115gr and 124gr FMJ, to 124gr Speer GDHP and 147gr Hydra-Shok HP), and in the Glock lowers we used both Glock OEM and Magpul mags. Not a single hiccup from any of them.

I chose a and b. JP GMR15. Excellent.

My colt 6450 has been reliable since way before pcc was a thing.

I have a Bushmaster Carbon 15 in 9mm. It uses Colt magazines. It is completely reliable, and surprising accurate with ammo it likes. Russian steel case are reliable but not accurate. It wears a Sig Romeo optic and it is a favorite of the new shooters. 200 yard hits on a 12 inch steel plate are common, 100 yard hits are easy. I dont know if these are still made or what Remington has done to quality, and i understand some may have concerns about the reciever but i am pleased with mine. As i recall it was a impluse buy, and a lot less $$ than a Colt. The 9mm has some advantages, it costs less than 5.56, has less muzzle blast, noise, and
the barrel dosent get as hot. Iff the Glock mag thing was a issue i would go with the new Ruger