quote:

So Colt mag design

You will actually have to ask CMMG. I would say yes as they show a colt version upper, but I don't want to speculate. I can say for sure personally that what you want works on glock mag lowers, but I have not tested it with colt as I only have short barrel cmmg uppers and no pistol colt lowers (as mine are actual colt and they didn't ever do a pistol).

quote:

Originally posted by Delta-3:
It doesn't meet all of your criteria but it is soft shooting & within your price range.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/ak-47/ak-v.html

I just got one of these, and will be giving a range report soon.

quote:

Originally posted by JoshNC:
Tubb flat wire spring

As an outsider with nothing to contribute since I don't have a 9mm AR, I found myself wondering if a Tubb's would help at all. Since it got mentioned, I've got one in my main AR and the difference is night and day, especially with a dry film lube on the spring to deaden noise a bit. It's a .223, and not a perfect comparison for the OP's questions, but it did noticeably smooth out the recoil impulse and general cycling of the rifle. Not that it has much recoil to begin with, mind you, but the feel of it was a lot... smoother is the only word I can come up with. At the very least, I can say it's not snake oil, and it's worth a look. They're not terribly expensive and I am very happy with mine.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Huffman:

quote:

Originally posted by Delta-3:
It doesn't meet all of your criteria but it is soft shooting & within your price range.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/ak-47/ak-v.html

I just got one of these, and will be giving a range report soon.

A buddy just got an NAK9 from Atlantic Firearms, and he's been raving about it. I'll have to give it a try and see if it's as good as everybody says. Form what I can tell it's very similar to the PSA product you linked here.

Wasn't PSA supposed to be coming out with some kind of MP5 clone? What ever happened to that?

Where are you seeing that the MPX carbine costs $1800? You can get one on Gunbroker for $1299 right now.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/847725888

When I compared the CZ Scorpion to the MPX many years ago it was immediately clear to me why the MPX cost more. The Scorpion uses injected molded polymer extensively throughout, the lower/grip ergonomics were atrocious with no aftermarket solutions at the time, and it had noticeably harsh (for 9mm) recoil that you already noted. The CZ also had a significant increase in bolt velocity when running suppressed causing it to jump around even more. I have several suppressed guns and the increased jumpiness isthe opposite behavior of what you would expect. That's also why you see people trying to find aftermarket increased power recoil springs for running suppressed.

By comparison the MPX is using machined aluminum upper and lowers, the ergonomics were right-on for an AR15 shooter (and I could change the pistol grip at-will), and the recoil was noticeably lighter. My MPX runs incredibly smooth when suppressed and has no gas-in-face issues with 3 different cans with a wide variety of ammo. I frequently see people scoff at the cost of the MPX mags when justifying the CZ as being a better choice, but it seems those same people also neglect to mention the widespread issues with the cheaper CZ mags cracking and failing.

I'm not trying to trash the CZ, it was clearly designed for a price point and has been very successful in sales. It would certainly be a fun choice if that was your price range. But if we are trying to be objective we have to be honest about the differences. And Sig had plenty of blunders with the MPX release including the Gen1 vs Gen2 issue that understandably turned off many buyers.

So to answer your question, the MPX is priced higher because it uses more costly materials and machining processes, a more costly gas operating system, and I believe Sig also invested more R&D dollars perfecting the ergonomics for an AR15 shooter and developing more reliable magazines. And certainly Sig is now relying on margin to recoup their substantial investment in developing a completely new sub-gun from the ground up with the goal of a modernized HK MP5.

For me the MPX has been 100% worth it. Mine has run like a top for several thousands of rounds. It has cycled every single type of ammo I have fed it, including sub-sonic ammo, without ever having a malfunction. It's incredibly smooth and soft shooting. The accuracy has been excellent and the ergonomics work with me so I actually hit what I'm aiming at, as opposed to just burning through cheap ammo for fun. I primary shoot it suppressed now so it's frequently very dirty and it still keeps chugging along. I'm sure it will eventually get dirty/dry enough to have a stoppage as all firearms do but I haven't cleaned it in probably a year. It's one of the most fun firearms I own and friends/family always request I bring it on range trips since they all love it. It's also the quietest semi-auto I own (other than .22LR of course). Shooting subsonic PRVI 158 grain it's quieter than every one of my buddies suppressed 300BO rifles when compared side by side.

If you haven't compared and shot the MPX side by side with the blowback options, I suggest you do so. If you do decide the MPX is worth the higher price I predict you will be very happy with your purchase.

Brett B...thanks for the insight and the thorough writeup...that's a nice MPX you have there. I really need to get my hands on one of those and shoot it before I make any decisions...

This is only meant as a data point , not a recommendation , because I know this isn't what you're looking for.

I recently purchased a Micro Roni. It's a polymer frame that lets you install a Glock pistol into it. You end up with a Glock that has a "stock" mine has a "forearm brace". I bought it mostly as range toy.
One of the things that surprised me the most, was how very little recoil there is and how quick it is to get back on target. I also have an AR9 SBR and a Ruger PC carbine to compare it with.
The Glock/Roni recoils noticeably less. I'm guessing that the difference is the type of recoil system...but that's just a guess.

quote:

Originally posted by mike28w:
This is only meant as a data point , not a recommendation , because I know this isn't what you're looking for.

I recently purchased a Micro Roni. It's a polymer frame that lets you install a Glock pistol into it. You end up with a Glock that has a "stock" mine has a "forearm brace". I bought it mostly as range toy.
One of the things that surprised me the most, was how very little recoil there is and how quick it is to get back on target. I also have an AR9 SBR and a Ruger PC carbine to compare it with.
The Glock/Roni recoils noticeably less. I'm guessing that the difference is the type of recoil system...but that's just a guess.

A buddy of mine has one of those, and while It's not really what I'm after, I agree it is a sweet system. It is a very interesting concept, and well-implemented. I actually did consider one for a bit, but after weighing all the factors, I decided for my purposes I really want a purpose-built carbine.

I have a Kel-Tec Sub2000 9mm carbine and it's blowback, that thing shoots as soft as can be. It's actually fun to shoot!

quote:

Wasn't PSA supposed to be coming out with some kind of MP5 clone? What ever happened to that?

Good question. What ever happened to that? Maybe someone at SHOT show could ask?

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
I have a Kel-Tec Sub2000 9mm carbine and it's blowback, that thing shoots as soft as can be. It's actually fun to shoot!

I believe it. I have a Marlin Camp 9 and it's a very soft shooter as well...….

While I agree with what Bret B said about the MPX, there can be a dark side to it. I have too many of them.

Bill

I have to say, the PTR is great! A bit pricey, but it’s worth it. It’s a lot of fun to shoot. I’m really happy with it.

quote:

I have too many of them.

I don't think that's possible philosophically. But in any case I'm pretty sure SIG will make it beneficial to have your own parts supply at some point.

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:

quote:

I have too many of them.

I don't think that's possible philosophically. But in any case I'm pretty sure SIG will make it beneficial to have your own parts supply at some point.

From an efficient allocation of capital point of view, it's possible to have too many MPXs. Too many is three lowers and five uppers.

I hope that you are right about SIG making parts available for the MPX. I'm short one Gen 2 bolt carriage assembly. Spare parts that I do have are nearly all from ILWT.

Bill

quote:

Originally posted by MrMcGoo:

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:

quote:

I have too many of them.

I don't think that's possible philosophically. But in any case I'm pretty sure SIG will make it beneficial to have your own parts supply at some point.

From an efficient allocation of capital point of view, it's possible to have too many MPXs. Too many is three lowers and five uppers.

I hope that you are right about SIG making parts available for the MPX. I'm short one Gen 2 bolt carriage assembly. Spare parts that I do have are nearly all from ILWT.

Bill

I wish I had your problems .

I don't think you want the 5 to 8 inches of new snow coming on Friday. I wanted to go shooting and zero two uppers.

Bill

I don't have a clue what snow has to do with this? But If I was in your shoes I would consider your inventory woefully inadequate for the long term considering SIG.

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:
I don't have a clue what snow has to do with this?

It's a light-hearted joke. I got it. We're supposed to get dumped with snow and our snow removal out here sucks, to put it mildly. Nobody goes anywhere, except those who venture out to risk a head-on or a ditch.

The other part, I would agree with you wholeheartedly. SIG discontinuing models and dropping support in short order means if you got one you like, best lay in a damn good supply of spare parts while you can.

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:
I don't have a clue what snow has to do with this? But If I was in your shoes I would consider your inventory woefully inadequate for the long term considering SIG.

^^^ yep, what hrcjon said ... SiG discontinues models faster than any other manufacturer I know of!
Thank goodness of those people that buy SiG's just to part out ...