quote:

Originally posted by Anubismp:
I can make do but I strongly prefer a BHO. If all else was equal I'd not pick something without one.

+1

quote:

Originally posted by Belgian Blue:
Lack of a bolt hold open isn't a deal breaker for me, as I'm used to HK91s.

Same. I get the arguments for and against, but this manual of arms doesn't bother me at all. LRBHO is faster, and it's nice, but for a really nice rifle, it wouldn't be a deal breaker for me if it didn't hold open. There's more than a few that don't have this feature that I wouldn't mind owning a nice example of.

New question ... Not a thread drift ... IMHO

What if the gun has a LRBHO, but no release? (other than pulling the charge handle to release it after changing mags)

I'm sure there are others, but the only two I can think of at the moment is the Ares Defense MCR and CZ Bren 805

quote:

Originally posted by kimberkid:
New question ... Not a thread drift ... IMHO

What if the gun has a LRBHO, but no release? (other than pulling the charge handle to release it after changing mags)

I'm sure there are others, but the only two I can think of at the moment is the Ares Defense MCR and CZ Bren 805

The M14/M1A and Mini-14/Mini-30 all have last round bolt hold open, but no specific bolt release lever, instead relying on pulling the charging handle rearward.

I don't see any issue at all with that setup. There's no need for a separate lever.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by kimberkid:
New question ... Not a thread drift ... IMHO

What if the gun has a LRBHO, but no release? (other than pulling the charge handle to release it after changing mags)

I'm sure there are others, but the only two I can think of at the moment is the Ares Defense MCR and CZ Bren 805

The M14/M1A and Mini-14/Mini-30 all have last round bolt hold open, but no specific bolt release lever, instead relying on pulling the charging handle rearward.

I don't see any issue at all with that setup. There's no need for a separate lever.

(as usual)...Bingo!!

I don't care on a toy, but on gun I set up for the protection of those I love, I want a bolt hold open.

How it's closed is of no importance to me unless I need both hands and feet to do it.

The fact that a lot of people get by without a common feature is a spurious argument. What about those who don’t? How many men have been killed in combat because their guns didn’t have that feature?
Don’t know? Can’t know? Yeah, I didn’t think so.

At the individual level 99.9 percent good enough isn’t good enough if I’m that 0.1 percent that needs the feature in a critical situation.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
The fact that a lot of people get by without a common feature is a spurious argument. What about those who don’t? How many men have been killed in combat because their guns didn’t have that feature?
Don’t know? Can’t know? Yeah, I didn’t think so.

At the individual level 99.9 percent good enough isn’t good enough if I’m that 0.1 percent that needs the feature in a critical situation.

Yup!

I learned a long time ago that 0.1 percent is 100 percent if it happens to you.

I don't have a fire team backing me up, so I would like to know when my rifle is empty. And that's from someone who loves his roller-lockers.

Can the lrbho from the 5.56 Ace fit the 308 Ace? If so, I wonder if IWI USA will sell just the part.

I hate guns that don't hold the bolt open. Avoided buying a 10/22 until I discovered the Thomspon cr22. It has lrbho with their mags and it works great. Found an upper that has lrbho on my pcc AR9 so there are ways around it.

quote:

Originally posted by 3/4Flap:
Consider the deal broke.

Welcome back, 3/4. I missed seeing your posts, and hope all is well.

It wouldn't be a deal breaker for me, but I do like it on a defensive weapon. As others have noted, at that price point, it should be an expected feature.

I have scratched my .308 fighting rifle itch with an M1A Scout Squad and an FAL, so I am not in the market for a Galil, but they certainly look like nice rifles, with a fantastic reputation for reliability and with good parts availability.

If it looks like your kind of rifle, I'd get it. I have counted my shots since I was in the Army, and now doing so is second nature to me. I am almost never surprised by the bolt hold open telling me I am empty. I usually know.

The only guns I have without it are my AR9s. Doesn’t bother me one bit.

Just got done fitting my Galil Ace 308 with a lrbho. I studied the pics of the 5.56 and made one out of a Saiga bho. Took 6 hours of careful dremelling but got it done. It has no bolt release lever, really don’t need it just a light tug of the charging handle. Took me 6 hours and glad I did it. Works great just like the 5.56 Galil Ace.

How much modification to the rifle?

No major mods to rifle itself, just addition of the part and filing of the part to work properly. The right rail needs minor filing for the “hook” to pop up and catch the bolt’s right lug just like the cut out for it seen in the 5.56 Galil. It works identical to the 5.56 Galil’s lrbho. What’s different is just the shape and size of the tab that engages the magazine.

Please do not use prez zero's initials for "Bolt Hold Open".

In addition to all of the AKs, MP5s and other HK roller locks have done just fine without having a BHO.

Why is a bolt hold open feature so important to some of you? Are you planning on fighting in a war or something?

The G3 did just fine for nearly 50 years with no LRBO…

The context in which I consider the average reload makes the existence or absence of a LRBHO of little consequence. I believe that, if someone is utilizing cover, possibly even in the prone, and has proper retention on his magazine carriage equipment, the second lost in having to rack the cocking handle to chamber a new round is not a deal-breaker. I am also the guy who manually strips mags whenever removing them from the rifle, and checks the chamber whenever experiencing a click of the hammer or bolt staying rearward. The circumstances of practice can often have us gaming it, because we may know the gun is going to be empty. Not to mention the insufficient mag retention on a lot of current rigs. Just like in the bullpup conversation, I think we need to consider the reload as a 7-10 second process; an extra second doesn't seem like such a killer, when it's 10% instead of 25% of the total time spent.

I only decided to do this for two reasons (and as a cheap “project” to do out of boredom).
1. I usually work on 1911’s for both trouble shooting problems and fine tuning. I wanted to work on something different for a change. I saw that the 5.56 Galil Ace had the Last Round Bolt Hold Open and the 308 did not and was wondering if was even possible. The 308 has a larger magazine which made the space to work within really tight. It was purely a challenge for myself and a test of my skills and patience so to speak. I also placed the requirement on myself to do almost no modification to the rifle itself (after all it cost me a pretty penny, I don’t want to turn it into an expensive paper weight). The only mod done to the rifle was just a 1.5 cm x 0.3 cm notch filed into the right rail for the “hook” to protrude like in the 5.56 Ace to catch the bolt.
2. This “project” cost me nothing but a spare part I had no need for and gave me something to work on without upsetting the wife.

Does this rifle need this ability? No, but dare I say as an AKM guy that I see no reason why this feature was included in the 5.56 Ace either. I will say that the surprise benefit of having this feature on the 308 is it saves the rear of the follower in the 20 LR/SR magazine from getting chewed up by the bolt slamming shut when it goes empty.

I like working on guns, it’s a hobby I do in my free time that is like a therapy for me. I am a full time police sergeant and a former USAF Security Policeman and have my fill solving people problems so in my off time I’d rather not deal with people. I am a certified M-16A2 (FN) Armorer and police firearms instructor and enjoy solving issues with firearms and fine tuning them. This was purely done for fun. I will say that I have noticed that the last round bolt hold feature in rifles today has become what GPS is to map reading skills with the generations of today. Unnecessary, but people are at a loss without it, at least they think they are. Laziness or just spoiled by the AR15, you decide.