Secret Service Eyes New 6.5mm Semi-Automatic Sniper Rifle

New 6.5mm Creedmoor rifles would give Secret Service counter-sniper teams valuable extra range, accuracy, and ballistic performance.

Joseph Trevithick
Posted 19 hours ago

The U.S. Secret Service is looking at replacing its 7.62x51mm M110 designated marksman rifles with a new gun chambered to fire the 6.5mm Creedmoor round. A 6.5mm Creedmoor rifle would offer greater range, as well as improved accuracy and terminal performance at long distances.

The Secret Service published a contracting notice seeking information about potential 6.5 Creedmoor rifles to supplant its M110s earlier today. The M110, also known as the Semi-Automatic Sniper System (SASS), is a variant of the SR-25 from Knight’s Armament Company (KAC). It is in widespread use across the U.S. government, including with all branches of the U.S. military. SR-25-series rifles, which are also in service with various military and security forces globally, are notably used by spotters alongside shooters with bolt-action sniper rifles in Secret Service counter-sniper (CS) teams...

Complete article with lots of photos:

https://www.twz.com/land/secre...ated-marksman-rifles

Please God, don’t let it be a Sig.

Wonder if they'll also go with the Geissele MRGG-S, which SOCOM recently adopted in 6.5 Creedmore as the Mk1 Mod0.

https://geissele.com/mrgg-s-ri...5-creedmoor-ddc.html

Man, once again I’m ahead of the neat stuff curve.
One of these days I’ll post a review of my Wilson Combat WC-10 in 6.5 Creedmoor.

Good for them, a great choice for the SS.

6.5CM -- the 18-year overnight success cartridge. Often poo-pooed by those who have never shot it side-by-side against a comparable 308 rifle. But the 6.5CM works well, especially when precision shooting is at the top of the list.

Don’t they already have 300 mag rifles ? Seems like they just want new toys. Is 6.5CM that much better than 308 at up to 300 yards ? Please.

Here’s the solution. They already have SR25 rifles. Just buy 6.5 uppers, same mags and swap scopes. I just found Knights 6.5 uppers for 4500. I’m sure .gov can get better pricing. And if you’re really switching, surplus sale the 308 uppers. KAC fanboys will pay full price for federal LE gun parts. There. After selling the old uppers, I just saved the gov millions. Net cost for new uppers after selling the old ones will be negligible.

And if uncle sugar is paying for ammo and range time, those SS bro’s get really good at shooting long range

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ElToro,

They do a piss poor job now with the tools they have - Hey SS - it ain't the gun..................

For the Secret Service, seems they could be fine with a bolt gun. I can imaging them setting up, then moving on as the normal course of business. While doing so, discreetness, weight and bulk are somewhat of a factor.

I don’t see high need for a semi-auto. The cartridge itself seems fine to me. As mentioned above, like concealed carry scenarios, the particular tactics or response is more important than the firearm in question.

As was obvious to anyone who saw the photos of the Secret Service snipers during the July incident when President Trump was injured, they do have bolt action rifles. They are Accuracy International models with 7-35×56mm Nightforce scopes, and according to the available information they are chambered for the 300 Winchester Magnum cartridge.





There are situations, however, when it would be better to have a (probably) lighter-weight autoloading rifle and a less powerful cartridge to permit faster transitions and follow-up shots. That is why military designated marksmen have autoloading rifles. Does the M110 rifle referenced in the linked article serve that purpose? Sure. Does the 6.5 Creedmoor cartridge offer significant advantages over the 308 Winchester in a more of a “designated marksman” role than for genuine long range sniping? Not really, but is there any good reason for an agency like the USSS to not adopt the round if they’re going to a different gun? No. Are all agencies always looking for the new and shinier? Yes.

The 6.5 is of course better for extreme long distances, but it’s highly unlikely that the Secret Service would ever be using that type of weapon for such situations. To talk about the 6.5’s advantages over the 308 at 1000 meters for a Secret Service autoloading rifle is just silly.

I can’t even imagine what such a situation would be, but if it existed, then any competent sniper would be wanting the AI and its 300 Win Mag. Keep in mind that real life protective service officers might want their bullets to do something more than making a “ding” when they hit a steel gong, and the 300 offers better ballistic advantages if, for example, some sort of barrier were involved. But none of that is my decision, and who knows? We may next hear of the agency’s adopting the 6.5 for all their precision rifles. I wouldn’t be the one pulling the trigger and every such decision involves compromises and tradeoffs.

quote:

They do a piss poor job now with the tools they have

Really? What’s the basis for that claim?

There has been one—count ’em, one—incident we know of in the history of the Secret Service in which an agent used a rifle to eliminate a threat to a protectee. That was last July in which a sniper shot the man who was trying to kill DJT. The attacker was lying prone and was shot through the head at a distance believed to be about 190 yards. As I have discussed and demonstrated in another thread, from a pure marksmanship standpoint the shot was not that remarkable.

On the other hand, what were the circumstances of the USSS sniper’s shot? Standing around for a long time as he probably had in countless previous missions trying to remain alert while scanning a large area with a multitude of people. Suddenly there are gunshots, yelling and screams, and police officers running and at least one shooting as well—something he had never experienced for real before. Where’s the threat? There’s a head and a gun (at 190 yards, keep in mind). Aim, fire with precision accuracy within seconds after the first shots were heard. Care to duplicate that?

The marksmanship at 190 yards when shooting from a supported position when the target is clear and everything is calm and known in advance was no big deal for a competent shooter. The tactical response in that real life situation, however, could not have reasonably been any better.

But what about the incident at the golf course? Wasn’t that a screwup? In some ways, yes, but what about the actual encounter between the USSS agent and the man with the SKS rifle? The assumption many gun owners will make is that it unfolded just like an IPSC stage: “Shooter understand the course? Shooter may load and make ready. Shooter ready?” Beep. And then engage clearly seen static targets that pose no threat to the gamer. Is that what sort of situation the Secret Service agent faced when he/she encountered the guy with the gun? Possibly, but highly improbable.

What was more likely?
“What the …? Is there someone there? Oh, shit! There’s a gun!!! Secret Service: Drop the gun!”
Meanwhile, what was the BG thinking and doing? “Dam’! I’m caught. Feets, don’t fail me now.”
Back to the agent. [Still thinking] “He’s running. Was that a gun? Can I shoot? What about Tennessee v. Garner? Is he a threat to the public? Yes, I’m justified …”: now shooting at a moving target 30-40 yards away partially seen through vegetation.

Yeah, I’m sure anyone here would have done better. And of course that incident had nothing to do with the subject of this thread, but we might as well trot it out as a way of criticizing the agency.

From what I heard and read it was a local LE’s shot that first disabled the shooter and/or his rifle. Followed up by the SS head shot.

quote:

Originally posted by sgalczyn:
They do a piss poor job now with the tools they have - Hey SS - it ain't the gun..................

The USSS Snipers/Counter-Snipers did a pretty good job at hitting the target quickly and accurately.
The surveillance part, not so much.

I stand corrected.

quote:

Originally posted by CPD SIG:
The surveillance part, not so much.

Some more thoughts.

Returning to the July incident, I have only the information that’s publicly available and must speculate about other things. Speculation is a good way to wander far from the truth, but it’s not inappropriate to make reasonably-likely guesses based on what we do know.

In my post in this thread above, my guess about the situation the Secret Service sniper faced was based on the assumption that he was more or less surprised when the murderer started shooting, and so we might ask why that was. I could offer my opinion, but that would be going even farther down the speculation path. In the other thread* that I posted about the marksmanship involved in the sniper’s shot I described what I believe was more likely, i.e., that the USSS sniper wasn’t totally surprised.

This is a comment from that post:
“I nevertheless strongly suspect that because the sniper was able to deliver an accurate shot so quickly after the killer started shooting, he was already suspicious of and was watching him. It’s obvious (to some of us, anyway) that even if the sniper had been watching the murderer because of his location and actions, he would not have been justified in responding until the killer produced a visible weapon. And from showing a rifle to cranking off even eight shots could have literally been a matter of seconds. Keep in mind as well that watching someone through a high-powered telescope with limited field of view is not only tiring and requires breaks, but also ignores the sniper’s other responsibilities with regard to everything else in the overwatch area.”

And why would the sniper have had reason to be looking at the killer’s location? Based on what was reported about the incident, the killer had been spotted on the roof of the building from where he fired his shots, and the police were moving into that area. We also know that one of the screwups in that incident was the poor to nonexistent communication between local law enforcement and the Secret Service. I therefore doubt that the sniper team 190 yards from the killer’s location were advised of what had been observed by witnesses and local LE. But what could they have seen?

If they’d been scanning the area (and we don’t know if the killer’s location was even in their primary area of responsibility to observe), they may have seen the movements by the local LEOs. They very likely would have seen the killer when he was walking around before he got into firing position. All that should have, and probably did attract their attention to the location and the individual. But would they have seen his rifle? Not if by the time they noticed him he had laid the weapon down on the roof. Were the killer’s observable actions on the roof reason to be suspicious and to watch him? Yes, and I suspect that’s what the USSS sniper was doing, but seeing someone walking around on a roof in line of sight of the principal was not justification to shoot him.

There would have been no valid reason to shoot the man before it was obvious that he had a gun, and the time required between the killer’s making his rifle visible and firing his multiple shots would have literally been seconds. Once that happened the local police officer fired at the killer and struck the stock of his rifle. Did that initial LE response convince the killer that what he was doing was a bad idea? Possibly, but the USSS sniper was totally justified under the circumstances to also fire his killing shot. Based on what I was able to determine, the time between the killer’s first shots and the sniper’s head shot that definitely rendered him incapable of killing anyone else was about 16 seconds. I believe that’s a good indication that the sniper wasn’t totally surprised by the killer’s gunshots and acted as soon as he was legally justified.

All this is off the track of what this thread was originally about, but questions were raised that I believe warranted being discussed.

* https://sigforum.com/eve/forum...050059905#5050059905

quote:

Originally posted by Dwill104:
Please God, don’t let it be a Sig.

Why not?

The 6.5 Creedmoor is softer shooting, accurate at longer distances as well as commonly available, so I can't see why they wouldn't consider it.
If I didn't already have a bunch of 308 Winchester components available and starting from "scratch" I'm not sure I would have chose 308 for my large frame AR platform.
Seems like a legitimate investigation.