Remember, .30 Carbine was/is quite underrated. 10mm is also a big enough case to justify using a bit longer barrel than a pistol to get full burn.

Everybody gets more hits when a shoulder stock is in play too.

Me, I'm ever hopeful for a .30 Carbine version of the P90. Giggity.

In general, PCCs are just plain fun. In 9mm, they are good for home self defense as well as for economical target shooting.

Because H&K MP-5’s (not the clones) are F’n EXPENSIVE!

I grew up in the days of black nomex and MP5s. It was impossible to be a cool guy back then without it. The MP5 was super controllable on full auto, even in 10mm. ARs were a specialty weapon in those days. You could lay down a lot of accurate bullet mass on target in a hurry. Even in the SEF configuration (in the days leading up to burst settings on the Navy model) you could put the gun on full auto and through trigger control send consistent 2 or 3 round bursts.

I think that subguns and PCCs still have a place. I actually still believe that both are superior (ballistically) at close distances in and around cars. The DEA had a video years ago called “Bullets and Beliefs”. The shot up a car with all the common LE guns of that time frame. As bullet technology got better, subgun ammo got better too.

Interestingly, I follow the Los Angeles County Sheriffs Special Enforcement Bureau on social media. They and their counterparts at LAPD still deploy a lot of MP5s in 2025.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
I grew up in the days of black nomex and MP5s. It was impossible to be a cool guy back then without it.

Unless you had M81 camo and a Colt 635...

Lots of reasons for a PCC. Cheap ammo. Lighter than an AR15. Works great with 6-8 inch barrels. Folding stock makes for a very short, easy to transport weapon Glock mags (depending on model). Can shoot plates at 10-30 yards without beating the cr*p out of them. A fun and easy way to get into Steel Challenge matches.

Totally agree, I have 2 (PSA AR9, and a B&T GHM which is a really great example of why. Soft shooting, accurate, simple design and while expensive in the PCC world it's worth the price considering what a 2011 goes for. YMMV

Just saw a short on IG from Garand Thumb. He shot a full auto group at 5-6 yards that was about an inch. Appeared to be a full 30 round mag. And that’s the goodness of the MP5

My absolute favorite gun is a HK SP5 that I registered as a SBR. The fixed stock is the way to go for actual shooting, but a collapsable lives on it most of the time just because practical isn't everything. Sometimes you just have to be ready to crawl through an air duct after Hans Gruber.

It's light, it's handy, it's accurate as hell, and with a can it is incredibly pleasant to shoot even indoors. It can't penetrate body armor as well as 5.56, but I'm not kicking doors in Afghanistan so if I grabbed it out of the safe to check a bump in the night I'd feel pretty good about it.

I've also got a CZ Scorpion Micro SBR that without a can on it will fit in the saddlebag on my motorcycle.

PCCs are a lot of fun to shoot, easier to shoot accurately than a handgun, and are at least as effective as a handgun at close range.

That's just for service calibers. Once you start getting into things like magnum lever guns you have serious short range deer medicine. 357 out of a 16 inch lever gun is a whole different beast than out of a pistol and 44 magnum will absolutely flatten deer and hogs out to a hundred yards or so.

quote:

Originally posted by copaup:
My absolute favorite gun is a HK SP5 that I registered as a SBR.

I'm right there with you on that. The only thing that could beat this setup would be the real deal with the fun switch, but then I wouldn't be able to afford to feed it.

PCCs make a lot of sense as an alternative to a pistol, such as for home defense. PCCs make a lot less sense as an alternative to a rifle.

I would say the vast majority of people with ARs don’t have a practical need for a rifle in 5.56 or larger, and don’t need to shoot it past 100 yards. A PCC in 9mm is much easier to shoot effectively than a pistol, and has superior ballistics to a pistol.

I built a 9mm AR using the CMMG radially delayed blowback system.

Using a registered SBR lower and MEAN Arms endomags, I can have one SBR lower that can do 9mm in addition to all the other regular calibers available to an AR.

It is short, light, and really easy to shoot. I can shoot steel up close without damaging the steel like I would with 5.56.

Using the CMMG radial delay system, it doesn't have the super heavy bolt carrier and buffer of a regular straight blowback 9mm. This makes recoil much milder, because of much less reciprocating mass. It also is quieter suppressed than a straight blowback PCC, because the delay allows pressure to drop before the bolt opens. I handload my own 147gr subsonic ammo for it.


It is 100% my most fun range gun. Adequate for home defense although I have 5.56 ARs for that purpose.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: IndianaBoy,

quote:

Originally posted by honestlou:
PCCs make a lot of sense as an alternative to a pistol, such as for home defense. PCCs make a lot less sense as an alternative to a rifle.

I would say the vast majority of people with ARs don’t have a practical need for a rifle in 5.56 or larger, and don’t need to shoot it past 100 yards. A PCC in 9mm is much easier to shoot effectively than a pistol, and has superior ballistics to a pistol.

The superior ballistics of a rifle round is enough justification to choose a rifle for HD instead of a pistol caliber, either a handgun or a PCC.

Pistols are positively anemic compared to rifles.

My 10yo the first time he tried a 9mm PCC with a red dot.

Video

For me, the PPC thing started during COVID, I wanted something compact, that fit in a backpack. I was also looking for something non-AR pattern with C-stock or a folder. It was sort of a two birds one stone situation.

I leveled off on a CZ Scorpion as it checked all my boxes.

I recently upgraded.

Nice.

I think I spy a tri-lug on that barrel? Rugged makes a tri-lug mount for their obsidian silencers that is HK pattern.

I'll go out on a limb here but just about every meaningful line of pistol suppressors can do a trilug either from the mfg or aftermarket. Are there some that don't or can't?

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:
I'll go out on a limb here but just about every meaningful line of pistol suppressors can do a trilug either from the mfg or aftermarket. Are there some that don't or can't?

I would assume that the majority do offer it.

I guess time and space matters. I’ve researched the whole PCC and suppressor game a lot. I had some wish list stuff.

Today I occupied the same time and space with a Daniel pistol PCC and a DA Mojave 9. The DD followed me home and I paid the bar fine on the Mojave.

Quick range trip and I have to say that the DD is no MP5. But, it’s close. I really like it. We threw the can on it and shot it at the shops indoor range. It’s a little gassy but not 5.56 RC2 gassy. I noticed the chamber gets dirty really quick with 115 grain Blazer.

I often trade for things and get home with buyers remorse. I think this is the best set up *for me*.

Now, the wait begins….