I'm looking to buy a current production M1 Carbine (maybe the paratrooper model) and from the research that I've done it looks some folks have had some reliability issues with both the Inland (not the WW2 Inland's) and AO carbines. However, I haven't come across anyone with any issues concerning the Fulton armory carbines, but the Fulton carbines are about twice as expensive as the AO and Inland carbines. Are the Fulton carbines worth the extra money? I don't mind paying more if they are stone-cold reliable and noticeably better quality, but I don't to pay more...just to pay more. And no, I don't want to buy a WW2 vintage M1 carbine, as I already have one that is essentially a safe queen. Thanks.


nero

I can comment on the Kahr/Auto Ord guns. We sold around half a dozen through work. I can recall three being brought back in with issues. One had a cracked op-rod. Factory sent a replacement. Another shot minute of house. Customer brought in a target and at 50 yards he was all over the place. Needless to say we stopped selling these, they were slow selling for us anyway. Auto-Ord stands by there guns though, that's what positive I can say.

Aside from the price, I've never heard a negative thing about Fulton Armory.

So the question is how much do you value quality?

According to what I have read, Kahr makes the Inland rifles.

quote:

Originally posted by Fundman:
According to what I have read, Kahr makes the Inland rifles.

No. Kahr owns Auto-Ordnance, which also produces a new commercial M1 Carbine. So they're a direct competitor to the new Inland Manufacturing, LLC.

The only connection they share is that both Auto-Ordnance and Inland source most of their parts from the same handful of companies. For example, both use cast receivers, operating slides, and trigger groups made by Lamothermic. They both buy their carbine barrels from Green Mountain. They also both buy their carbine stocks from Altamont. These parts are identical, with the only difference being some of the markings on the receiver, stock, and barrel.

All the major components are the same, but the Auto-Ordnance and Inland carbines are assembled and sold by separate, competing companies, and some of the smaller parts like the bolts differ in their sources.

Not surprisingly, since they're basically made from the same parts, Inland Manufacturing's carbines share A-O's same poor reputation for less than stellar reliability and longevity.

If you're going to buy a new commercial carbine, go for the pricier but better made carbines offered by Fulton or James River Armory. (JRA produces new carbines under the Rock-Ola brand. But like the new Inland, they just bought the rights to the name, and have no actual connection to the original USGI manufacturer.)

However, while I know you said you didn't want to consider it, the fact is that for the price of a Fulton or James River carbine (~$1300-$1600+), you can get a hell of a nice USGI carbine. Heck, for ~$800 you can get a decent condition USGI carbine, if you're patient enough and keep an eye on the milsurp messageboards like Gunboards or the CMP Forum.

Honestly, that would be my advice. Just because your first USGI carbine is a safe queen doesn't mean that your second one has to be...

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
[manufacturer.)

However, while I know you said you didn't want to consider it, the fact is that for the price of a Fulton or James River carbine (~$1300-$1600+), you can get a hell of a nice USGI carbine. Heck, for ~$800 you can get a decent condition USGI carbine, if you're patient enough and keep an eye on the milsurp messageboards like Gunboards or the CMP Forum.

Honestly, that would be my advice. Just because your first USGI carbine is a safe queen doesn't mean that your second one has to be...

this is the way to go, honestly, if you want a good reliable carbine,

I also sell a few Auto Ord carbines, have not had any come back yet, but the quality is not there for the price point,

one thing I can saw about Auto Ord stuff is to get a screwdriver and tighten every screw on the Carbines and Thompsons before you shoot,
each one we get in has at least one screw that is loose, the Thompsons have just about every stock screw that needs at least a 1/4 turn,

as far as USGI, even a beater carbine can be rebuilt , and will likely out last one of the newer models,

An option for a slightly more affordable Fulton Armory carbine is to buy one of their barreled actions, which come with a headspaced bolt, and then assemble the rest using surplus USGI parts.

http://www.fulton-armory.com/m...arreled-actions.aspx

If you buy one of the actions with a front sight and barrel band already installed, you'll basically just need a trigger group, operating slide, recoil spring assembly, stock with hardware, and rear sight.

A complete Fulton carbine is ~$1400, but the barreled action is only $774. You should be able to obtain the rest of the needed parts for less than $626. It's still going to be over $1k, but you should be able to save a couple hundred bucks in the end, depending on how patient/lucky you are when it comes to finding deals on the parts you need.

Putting these parts together is relatively straightforward, with various step-by-step reassembly tutorials available online. You won't need any specialized tools to install these parts, but a rear sight installation tool makes it a lot easier than driving it in with a punch. And if you don't buy a complete trigger group, then assembling all the parts and springs in the housing can be a bit tricky/fiddly.

I still say a surplus USGI carbine is the way to go, though.

A few years back I was fortunate to pick up a Springfield Armory M1 carbine receiver at Camp Perry commercial row, from Springfield. They were $65.00 and I could have kicked my self that I only picked up one.

Springfield had plans to build "new" carbines on their receivers with all new GI parts for the rest. They found out that the GI parts were so expensive that the project was not commercially viable, so they just sold off the receivers that they had already manufactured.

I picked up most of my additional parts from Fulton Armory, even though they were pricey they were excellent.
Had Riverbank Armory in CA screw a barrel on for me and I couldn't be happier. I have had the gun now for five or six years and have never experienced a failure of any kind. The SA receiver is ever bit as good as a GI only much more affordable.

If you can find an SA receiver floating around, don't be afraid to assemble one your self if you can find a good source for the remainder of the parts.

quote:

Originally posted by Gutpile Charlie:
A few years back I was fortunate to pick up a Springfield Armory M1 carbine receiver at Camp Perry commercial row, from Springfield. They were $65.00 and I could have kicked my self that I only picked up one.

The SA receiver is ever bit as good as a GI only much more affordable.

If you can find an SA receiver floating around, don't be afraid to assemble one your self if you can find a good source for the remainder of the parts.

Congrats on being able to acquire one of those. These forged Springfield Armory, Inc. receivers are considered to be some of the best commercial M1 Carbine receivers ever offered.

These were made by LMT, and around 3000 were produced for SAI, who had originally planned to produce commercial M1 Carbines to go along with their commercial M1 Garands. But that plan didn't work out, so the carbine receivers were subsequently clearanced by SAI in the early 2000s.

Unfortunately, the chances of stumbling across one for sale these days are slim.

In addition, you have to pay attention if you're hunting a SAI receiver, because there were a small number of cast M1 Carbine receivers that had previously been produced for Springfield Armory, Inc. back in the mid-1980s. The quality of these 1980s cast SAI receivers isn't nearly as good as the later forged SAI receivers from the 2000s.