A buddy here on SF pointed out that in the second photo -- the S&W package -- the bipod is clamped to the "bayonet lug".

Attaching a bipod to a barrel went out of style decades ago. IMO this photo alone is enough to cross this seller off your list.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:
A buddy here on SF pointed out that in the second photo -- the S&W package -- the bipod is clamped to the "bayonet lug".

Attaching a bipod to a barrel went out of style decades ago. IMO this photo alone is enough to cross this seller off your list.

They're just throwing stuff together hoping something will stick. The market for ARs is over-saturated and they're at least trying a little bit to be different than the heaps of "just as good" guns for sale.

The handguard isn't free-float anyway on that one, not sure it matters where you stick a bipod.

I would recommend the s&w sport as the entry level AR, and the Ruger AR556 MPR as the upgraded baseline. Both reliable, both priced well, and both made by companies that stand behind their product. Others are certainly viable, but for the money, that’s where I’d go.

For a budget entry level gun, I recommend the S&W SPORT. The late Pat Rogers tried to destroy one in his classes and was impressed by it's performance (it didn't break). Pat was hard to impress and was very much a BCM guy. If all you are going to use the rifle for is target shooting and maybe a class or two you'll be fine. S&W also makes a higher end AR aimed at sales to LEO and in my experience are rather good. The ruger is probably fine, I've got a ruger lower, but I don't have any trigger time on one. You can also upgrade the S&W as you learn more and figure out what you need/prefer.

If you want to step up a notch a Colt 6920 or 6720 would be good, IF YOU CAN GET THEM FOR A REASONABLE PRICE. The Colts that I have shot, handled or carried professionally over the years have all been a good build quality. Make sure you get the 16" and watch the price. If the Colt is the same price as a BCM, I'd look really hard at BCM.

That brings us to Bravo Company Manufacturing (BCM). If you believe Paul Buffoni's writing on M4Carbine back in the day, he founded the company to provide Colt level quality to the folks who couldn't buy from Colt (smaller agencies) or Colt wouldn't sell to (civilians). Colt was focusing most of their production on big Government contracts at the time. I've been using BCM since mid to late 2009 and I own or have given away over a dozen of their uppers. I had an issue with one of them, but the company made it right very quickly. BCM has had a problem with availability at times due to their high standards. They built their own in house quality control area and show it off on youtube. BCM provides a good quality rifle for a proportional price. If you want BCM, you might want to buy one of their prebuilt lowers ($380) and one of their uppers separately and you might save a couple bucks or be able to select the specific upper you want.

Other options include SIONICS, Daniels Defense, Lewis Machine and Tool or Centurion arms. They are in the same price range as complete BCMs. Sionics does a lot of LEO business and was heavily involved on m4carbine.net. Daniels Defense (DD) had/has a good following here and has multiple government contracts. Lewis Machine and Tool (LMT) has won UK and NZ rifle contracts. Centurion arms is a lessor known company for their rifles, but have sold their rails to COLT and others OEM.

Skip this paragraph: In general for a new shooter I'd recommend a .223 Wylde or 5.556mm chamber 16" or longer GOV, SOCOM,Lightweight, profile barrel (carbine or mid length) with a 1/9,1/8,1/7 twist rate either a fixed front sight and folding rear or the ability to mount a pair of folding sights and an unpinned muzzle device (USGI works fine). I recommend a collapsible stock, unless it's illegal in your area. Either a mlok free float rail, 1913 free float rail or plastic hand guards (USGI, MAGPUL). Most of the rifles recommended in this thread meet these specs.

For gear you need OIL, 5-6 good magazines (PMAG, USGI with Magpul followers (Brownels, D&H, Okay), Tango Down), ammo, quality 2 point sling (VTAC,VAS) and an OTIS cleaning kit. I'd avoid those premade kits until you figure out what optic you prefer. You may not even want or need a light or bipod, better to invest the $ in ammo for now. If you are going to use the rifle for defense you do need a light IMHO, but you don't need one to start out.

Have fun and FWIW ARs tend to multiply in your safe and also attract accessories. Remember to read the manual, lubricate the rifle, use quality ammo and ask questions before you buy stuff not after.

Okay, I'm reviving this thread because after a slight diversion (I'm getting a PUG!), I'm back to the AR.

I had a long talk with my son-in-law today who just completed his AR pistol (a very nice Aero Precision lower and Geissele upper, a Geissele trigger and a Trijicon MRO). He's got a 35% off coupon for Geissele, so I'm looking to get a very sweet deal on a Super Duty 16".

I'm not looking to go whole hog on accessories, at least at first, but he did suggest getting some pop-up iron sights (he recommended Magpul polymer units). Those of you well-versed in things AR, is there anything I should consider adding or altering straight away?

For the record, here is the Super Duty 16".

quote:

Originally posted by fpuhan:
Okay, I'm reviving this thread because after a slight diversion (I'm getting a PUG!), I'm back to the AR.

I had a long talk with my son-in-law today who just completed his AR pistol (a very nice Aero Precision lower and Geissele upper, a Geissele trigger and a Trijicon MRO). He's got a 35% off coupon for Geissele, so I'm looking to get a very sweet deal on a Super Duty 16".

I'm not looking to go whole hog on accessories, at least at first, but he did suggest getting some pop-up iron sights (he recommended Magpul polymer units). Those of you well-versed in things AR, is there anything I should consider adding or altering straight away?

For the record, here is the Super Duty 16".

I'd recommend the Magpul PRO sights over the standard polymer MBUS, especially if they're going to serve as primary sights at any time. The MBUS are fine, but in my opinion are best to serve as backups and leave a lot to be desired if you're going to be adjusting them more than once a year.

I've got a few rifles in various setups and I'm happy with a few things on a defensive rifle; Optic, sling, light, and some kind of index/grip/stop on the rail to set your hand in a consistent position (for many reasons, including being able to consistently hit that light)

Simplest setup is a red dot in lower 1/3 cowitness to a set of folding backup sights, a rapid-adjust 2-point sling with QD swivels (as less than ideal as QD swivels are), and a solid flashlight with a basic tail switch capable of momentary and constant-on mounted about where your support thumb lands alongside the top rail. The grip/index/handstop/whatever is a personal choice, I use different VFGs and products of various sizes and shapes.

Add anything else as needed or desired. Might need rail covers if you shoot it a lot. Or a good set of gloves. That Mk16 rail on the Super Duty is quite thin and puts your hand right next to the gas block. I go for ambidextrous controls as I'm a lefty and like my safety and mag catch to be usable with my left hand.

I would definitely recommend metal pop-up sights, but which kind you need may depend on whether you plan on adding a red dot or a scope. If you're going with a red dot, you can find some pretty good deals from time to time on well-made sights that are a bit bulky, relatively speaking, but won't get in the way at all when you fold them down and use the red dot. If you opt for a scope and want to mount it relatively low, sights* that fold down flatter are available. I found a deal on a couple of sets of Midwest Industries' "Combat Rifle Sights" http://www.midwestindustriesin...Set-p/mi-crs-set.htm , but haven't shot with them extensively yet.

*I say "sights". The rear sight needs to fold flat enough to accommodate a scope.

If they'll let you use the coupon that is a decent deal as the specs on the rifle look good if a bit over kill for a beginner. I've used Gieselle parts before, but I've never handled or seen one of their rifles in person. I'd hit a couple AR specific websites and see if anyone has done a review on them. FWIW Bill G is a smart fellow and I doubt he'd put out a bad rifle.

+1 on the Magpul pros, you'll need sights and at least one magazine as it appears that the rifle dosen't ship with them. I found the Pros better for regular use. The Troy and KAC Micros are good too, but usually more expensive. Also you might want some rail covers for better grip. I use BCM, the KAC covers didn't impress me.

quote:

Originally posted by fpuhan:
Okay, I'm reviving this thread because after a slight diversion (I'm getting a PUG!), I'm back to the AR.

I had a long talk with my son-in-law today who just completed his AR pistol (a very nice Aero Precision lower and Geissele upper, a Geissele trigger and a Trijicon MRO). He's got a 35% off coupon for Geissele, so I'm looking to get a very sweet deal on a Super Duty 16".

I'm not looking to go whole hog on accessories, at least at first, but he did suggest getting some pop-up iron sights (he recommended Magpul polymer units). Those of you well-versed in things AR, is there anything I should consider adding or altering straight away?

For the record, here is the Super Duty 16".

In case you're unaware, Geissele coupon codes are for "in stock" items only. Every Super Duty is built to order, so it's not eligible for any discount code. As was also mentioned earlier, Geissele is having a very difficult time fulfilling orders placed on Black Friday. Many customers have been unhappy with the rifle they received....again for reasons mentioned above. My recommendation is purchase a BCM lower and upper of you're choice. I have three that I have thousands of rounds through. Purchasing the upper and lower separately saves you some money (no excise tax).

**Edit to add that many are approaching three months and still have not received their rifles.

quote:

Originally posted by swage:
In case you're unaware, Geissele coupon codes are for "in stock" items only. Every Super Duty is built to order, so it's not eligible for any discount code.

This is good to know. Could be a deal-killer if that's the case.

Oh (and thanks for the replies, guys), I can get an Eotech XPS2 Green HWS for $399 (reg. $665), but I don't want to plunk down that kind of change all at once. That's why I'm looking at the BUIS.

The S&W Sport 2 is hard to beat. Very accurate and solid. They are inexpensive but reliable and leave extra money for an optic/sights/trigger upgrades/rails,etc.. Geisselle makes a good gun but it all depends on how much you have to spend and if you think it is worth it to you.