Hi all,

I have a BCM 16" recce-style carbine right now that has an Aimpoint PRO. It's my only AR. I use it at the range while doing both "dynamic shooting" moving around etc. as well as on the bench at longer ranges (200+ yards). The Aimpoint PRO works great for me for fast shooting out to about 100 yards, but after that accuracy suffers. I also have very high astigmatism, which is fully corrected with Rx glasses (20/15 actually), but the red dot on the Aimpoint is still a small red starburst to my eyes. The Aimpoint is very usable to me, while having a target focus minimizes this effect but it's still there.

Now that the 1-6x and 1-8x LPV scopes are becoming more prevalent and popular, I think now may be the time for me to try out a decent 1-4X scope at a good price. I honestly don't see any need for more than 4x with my type of shooting, heck, 200 yards at 4x looks like 50 yards. I know that red dots are the best for close combat shooting, but I use my 870 and G17 for home defense, so I'm exploring the possibility of a LPV scope for my rifle.

What 1-4x scopes do you recommend? I've been doing a lot of research, reading and watching various reviews, and these seem to be very well regarded:

Steiner P4Xi 1-4x24
Trijicon Accupoint TR24 1-4x24
Trijicon Accupower 1-4x24
Leupold VX-R firedot
SWFA SS 1-4x24 Tactical

Pros and cons of each of these? Specific models? Out of all of these, I tend to really like the Steiner P4Xi best. It seems to have all the attributes I'm looking for, but I'm open to feedback and other suggestions. In fact, here's a recent video that kinda sold me on the Steiner:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mGr17gDZ0A

Thanks for the help.

Chris

I have a Vortex Viper PST 1-4x24 on my 16" service rifle, shooting 200, 300, and 600 yards in competition. 4x magnification is fine for the distances you're shooting. I'm thinking you will be happy with any of the choices you listed. Just pick your pricepoint and favorite reticle.

I've been doing some research on this lately, and my next 1-4x will be a Steiner P4xi. Steiner quality, nice and simple illuminated reticle, good eye box, great price (especially with LE discount), and true 1x for use like a red dot.

Many of the other 1-4x scopes, like the Leupolds, are actually 1.25x or 1.5x.

I've got two Leupold VX-R's and they have been good to go so far. Works well for a carbine that you can tun on the red dot and do pretty well with both eyes open close range low mag, but crank it up and have legs to reach out near instantly.

I had an Accupower 1-4X. Great glass and optic for the price, but not daylight bright on the illum side of the house.

Only sold it to fund a 1-6x Vortex PST Gen 2.

Leupys-VR / Mark ARs wont be as close to 1x as the others listed.

Oh... and also: I am using a set of Magpul MBUS Pro backup sights on this rifle, so the rear is pretty darn low. What QD mount do you recommend that sits the scope nice and low at around co-witness level? Thanks.

You can't cowitness with a traditional scope.

You'll need to either switch to a set of 45 degree offset sights, or put the scope in a QD mount and remove the scope when you want to use the MBUS sights.

I have the Trijicon TR24R (red triangle reticle) on my Sig 516. It's the most "red dot like" of the 1-4x scopes that I have used in that it's very quick and easy to put the big triangle on the center of the target on 1X power. It has a very generous eye box (insensitive to head position), and it's also very light at 14.4oz.

The downside is the lack of additional hash marks for holdovers. The triangle is 4.2 MOA tall and can be used effectively for holds out to about 350 yards. 400+ yards and the triangle is floating up in space relative to your target making holds much less consistent. Also if you are in a dark room using a weapon mounted light the illuminated triangle can get washed out. It's not invisible, it's just not brightly lit anymore.

The Trijicon RS24-C-1900006 is my current favorite 1-4x scope, I have this mounted on my 16" SCAR 16S. With a 100 yard zero the reticle is perfectly calibrated for holds out to 500 yards using IMI 69 grain match ammo. It's also very close for IMI 55 grain M193 and most 75 grain ammo too depending on muzzle velocity. With this scope I can easily transition from rapid close distance shots on 1X to ringing steel out to 500 yards with just a twist of the zoom lever.

It's not quite as fast for target acquisition on 1x power as the TR24R, but I ran a 3-day carbine class with is this past summer that included lots of CQB work and distance shots out to 300 yards and it performed great. I had no trouble seeing the illumination in bright daylight but it's not as bright as an Aimpoint. The reticle is etched so even if the illumination seems a bit dim the reticle is still easily visible.

There are many scopes out there with nicer glass (Like the Vortex Razor) but when weight is factored in I think the Trijicon options have the best balance of glass, reliability, reticles and feature set.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
You can't cowitness with a traditional scope.

You'll need to either switch to a set of 45 degree offset sights, or put the scope in a QD mount and remove the scope when you want to use the MBUS sights.

Yes, totally. I was just trying to make the point that I wanted a mount that would place the scope low, "around co-witness height". I do plan to use a QD mount. Sorry for the confusion.

I own a Steiner T5Xi and a Vortex Razor 1-6.

If the Steiner P4Xi had come out 5-6 years ago, I would have bought a P4Xi and probably would not have felt a need to buy those more expensive optics.

They caught my eye and I was intrigued, and I finally got the chance to lay hands on one at a 3-gun match, on the gun of a fellow competitor.


Excellent glass. Excellent reticle. LIGHTWEIGHT.


There are other makes with solid offerings, but that little Steiner impressed the heck out of me.


Now that I have both the Razor and the T5Xi, I don't see myself getting rid of them, but part of that is just because I already have them on the guns and setup the way I like.

quote:

Originally posted by Chris17404:

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
You can't cowitness with a traditional scope.

You'll need to either switch to a set of 45 degree offset sights, or put the scope in a QD mount and remove the scope when you want to use the MBUS sights.

Yes, totally. I was just trying to make the point that I wanted a mount that would place the scope low, "around co-witness height". I do plan to use a QD mount. Sorry for the confusion.

Most of the QD mounts are similar in height over the rail of about 1.5 inches. LaRue and ADM for example.

Warne mounts are a bit lower, something like 1.4, but their one piece mounts are non DQ.


Honestly, and I know this is heresy for some, but I would opt out of the BUIS.

Unless you are actually using the rifle for duty, I just don't see the need to justify the cost.

Check out the Warne X-skel mounts. Quite a bit less $ than all the QD offerings, and in my experience they are tough and very well made.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: IndianaBoy,

Steiner reticle indoors at 1x if you were curious.

This is the T5Xi but I am pretty sure it shares a reticle with the P4Xi.

I used a trijicon, tr24 for some time. I really like it's simplicity and durability.

I have a TR24, it is very fast but ...at least for me I lose a bit of precision with the triangle. Still a great scope, lightweight and durable.

I really am looking for a 1-8 LPV or at least a 1-6, I like the VX6 but have not pulled the trigger yet on one.

I have a Steiner P4XI, same reticle as the T5XI IndianaBoy posted. It’s mounted on the wife’s 15-22 rifle in a Leupold cantilever mount. I really like it. The tube limits fov at 1x compared to a reflex sight and it’s just the slightest amount more than 1x to my eye but it’s a great scope for our uses. It’s a pretty good price too at SportOptics.

I like it so well that my wife’s AR15 is going to get one and maybe even replace the Aimpoint on my AR15.

quote:

Originally posted by Riley:
I have a Steiner P4XI, same reticle as the T5XI IndianaBoy posted. It’s mounted on the wife’s 15-22 rifle in a Leupold cantilever mount. I really like it. The tube limits fov at 1x compared to a reflex sight and it’s just the slightest amount more than 1x to my eye but it’s a great scope for our uses. It’s a pretty good price too at SportOptics.

I like it so well that my wife’s AR15 is going to get one and maybe even replace the Aimpoint on my AR15.

Have you tried adjusting the diopter?


It depends on your eyesight. A buddy of mine needs WAY different diopter settings than me.

All of mine are 1x to my eye, diopter setting plays a big part in that.

I had a Steiner Military 1-4 and it was superb in every way but weight.....serious pig. The PX4i would be my choice for a 1-4. I wanted a little more and went with a Leupold VX6 1-6, similar to to VXR but more magnification. The VX4 Leupolds arent 1-4, theyre 1.25 or 1.5. It makes a differnce at close ranges.

I did play with the diopter, but as I said, to my eye. Not enough to worry about however.

quote:

Originally posted by motorheadjohn:
I have a Vortex Viper PST 1-4x24 on my 16" service rifle, shooting 200, 300, and 600 yards in competition. 4x magnification is fine for the distances you're shooting. I'm thinking you will be happy with any of the choices you listed. Just pick your pricepoint and favorite reticle.

I'm also using a Vortex 1-4 on a service rifle. You're selling yourself short if you don't include Vortex in your search.

The SWFA is nice, for a reasonably priced second focal plane 1-4X.

Nice reticle, well made, true 1X, alternate magnification/off control knob, etc.

For me, true 1X in a CQB sight of any kind, is mandatory.

Heavy, but then, all these are. The tradeoff for trustworthy materials and construction and features.



The Trijicon AccuPower is another excellent choice.