LGS has Ruger lowers and POF lowers for sale. Are these essentially the same quality wise? Would you choose one over the other and why?
Ruger lower is $25 less than the POF though in the scheme of things doesn't make much difference.
Thanks for any input.
Greg

Which roll mark do you prefer??
I prefer the Ruger.

I always go with the roll-mark I like best or a couple years ago there were several made in my home state of Kansas … building a new shooter isn’t the only reason to buy a receiver. I got this one to build one to teach my granddaughters to learn on … next step after a 22

For me, it's gotta be a Colt! But everybody has their own preference... Other than the few manufacturer's that produce a version of the new-fangled "ambi-lower" with ambidextrous controls... The multitude of "mil-spec" lowers are all about the same... save for some minor cosmetic differences.

I want to find a Houston TX marked High Standard lower for my next build.
From what I've found, they never sold them separately, only complete rifles.

Pic stolen from internet of the Spike's Crusader lower - I have a couple of these.

Some interesting lowers posted here. Going for the Ruger tomorrow. Would think about ordering one but by the time I would pay shipping and the transfer its cheaper to buy them from the store.
Thanks everyone for the replies.

I wouldn't take any chances. Better play it safe and get one of each.

quote:

Originally posted by cas:
I wouldn't take any chances. Better play it safe and get one of each.

I like that answer.

I like the POF lower because of the integral trigger guard, like the Spike's Crusader lower posted above.

I looked into that years ago. There are about 12 factories that actually forge the platters - the first part of making a lower or upper. Most of those also machine. There's a list kicking around on the net, the machines aren't cheap so they stay in business and few changes over the years.

Colt buys out it's forged platters and only machines. They are also aligned with Diemaco in Canada who does forge. Colt also has allowed a contracted third party to assemble their Colt rollmarked AR's off site for civilian sales.

The shops that buy platters number up to 45 and for the most part they stay in business but new ones start up now and again. They machine and roll mark the lowers, depending on their customer and contract some get more attention than others. Since marking and serial numbers have to be done at a certain stage how they sort quality coming off the line seems tricky. Stag didn't have a good handle on their process at one time and got raided by the ATF over it. Shut them down for almost 18 months sorting out the ATF's persecution and guidance.

To highlight tricky, at a certain point in machining its "finished," must have serial number on it, and the roll mark before it goes out to anodizing, which is rarely done on site. Those lowers have to be inventoried, listed, tracked as a FFL transfer, etc. there and back again. Yet, the lowest priced lowers I've seen were just a few years ago, Anderson's were selling under $35. I quite agree that improving the quality control and inspections can double the price - which would make them $70 - but it's diminishing returns. A lower for $140 won't be "twice" as good as one for $70, and at $70, it's not "twice" as good as one at $35. That's not how manufacturing works. At best when you double the price it's only 50% better, not another 100%. This is where discussions of "fit and finish" plus "tolerances" get involved. And in the last 40 years, the American public has no idea of how it works in factories. We don't work in them any more, if the tag on our shorts is any indication.

I did spend two years working a brake press in production - "tolerances" are a thing, so is stacking them, and then we get to "clearances" which are necessary for a field firearm dragged thru deserts, jungles, and snow to operate.

There have been hundreds of roll marks, right down to liquor stores in FL. Some are for fun, some are blatant egotism, and how we choose is the perception of quality that has been carefully constructed in the MEDIA, not the gun. Good advertising, a dash of patriotism, long term relevance on the market, and some paid shills on the internet go pretty far. Yes, gun makers can and do have the ability to buy media services who then work thru posters on forums to then influence buyers. The really good ones never get caught.

The flakes drop guns until they go off then blame the maker. And gaining market share can be a devious business.

I don't own any roll marks that are "popular." One AGP, a turbo company in AZ, a PSA, and now a 17 Designs. The key to assembling an AR isn't the roll mark or the appeal that a more expensive one will work "better," the issue is getting stack tolerances to work when you have a parts bin of 1 - one - to match to another. The factories don't do it that way, they get hundreds and can batch the sizes to be complementary. That is why we almost never see an issue with the uppers and lower pins going to together - they select for fit. You can tell because the holes aren't reamed shiny after anodizing. You or me? Nope, my first was literally too tight, and with the judicious use of my smallest deadblow hammer, they fit. That AR is still tough to take down. My next - a bit loose. Not "basic training beater" loose, but no problem working the pins. A one gun every five years builder gets what they get and lives with it - the lower/upper may measure out to military specs yet the two have an incompatible fit at the first assembly - it goes to that +/- .015". One on the low side, the other on the high, you can meet specs yet the edge to edge is .030" off.

So, we deal with it. Some don't and kick their heels demanding the maker do better or complain they make garbage yet the real problem is the expectation of something that still doesn't exist, even tho good ol Eli Whitney and tens of thousands of factories working for over 150 year have tried to accomplish. Parts are getting better, but there is NO GUARANTEE of one makers parts dropping into another makers guns. They have daily battles over it on their own production lines.

I pick lowers by reputation, price, and availability at the time Im looking for one. An eye for detail - parting line grinding, surface prep, machine marks all tell a story. The roll mark? We choose the one that seems to impress US not the public. Like watches or cell phones, if it looks low class or junky, it might not fit our perception of who we are - ie image and ego.

I might shy away from the most numerous yet least expensive lower on the market - they have a good reputation over the years - its mostly based on the pony emblem they use. I prefer "professional grade" and it's highly subjective. However - they also make one of the best trigger kits on the market, it has stainless MIM trigger and sear, no grit, smooth, short takeup and assembles easily. I build field rifles, not target, so using it gets me the most bang for the buck and saves me $100 over the "tactical" high end triggers sold to the operators operating operationally. I never got one of those in the M16's issued to me - milspec taxpayer low bidder is what they came with, and what wars are won with. I do kit the lower with set screw mods to hold the detent springs in, and color the Safe/Fire markings, other than that, it's usually a quickly diminishing return on the baskets of money thrown at guns just to make sure somebody's picture on line gets upvotes.

My upvote is when it rolls a deer in its tracks. Performance first.

quote:

Originally posted by P250UA5:
I want to find a Houston TX marked High Standard lower for my next build.
From what I've found, they never sold them separately, only complete rifles.

Call them and ask for Alan Aronstein. They might have some laying around.

quote:

Originally posted by papaac:

quote:

Originally posted by P250UA5:
I want to find a Houston TX marked High Standard lower for my next build.
From what I've found, they never sold them separately, only complete rifles.

Call them and ask for Alan Aronstein. They might have some laying around.

Will keep that in mind. All discretionary spending is on hold while we figure out this moving thing.

I assembled a lower of all Rock River parts. Including their match trigger. Then added a White Oak NM upper. Works great. All my lowers are RRA.
I then removed the WO floating A2 handguard and installed a RRA CMP TRO handguard.

Curious that RRA gets little mention here.

quote:

Originally posted by Hamden106:
Curious that RRA gets little mention here.

I think perhaps because most shooters associate RRA with fully-assembled rifles only.

I found an RRA receiver for sale and built a rifle on it. Very nice lower. I like that the receiver is marked "5.56mm" and not "Cal. Multi." It's a high shelf lower, which means it won't accept an RDIAS, which is of no consequence for most of us.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: parabellum,

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

quote:

Originally posted by Hamden106:
Curious that RRA gets little mention here.

I think perhaps because most shooters associate RRA with fully-assembled rifles only.

Probably spot on with this assessment. While RRA stripped lowers are out there they aren’t all
that prevalent.
My first AR15 16 years ago was a factory RRA gun and it has been my duty rifle ever since and has been absolutely flawless. Though it is going to be retired soon just because it was time to make a few changes and figured I build something with a few more modern features and less weight.

I did come across a stripped RRA lower once years and years ago on here when that fella Steve from Florida that would do the Saturday Night Specials think his forum name was 220ST or
something like that with the dancing tomato avatar I believe.
I had ordered a CMMG lower and he opened the box and said it looked like it had been run over by a truck so he offered me a RRA for silly cheap instead.
I miss that dude. He offered up some great deals.

RRA parts
https://www.rockriverarms.com/...play&category_ID=191

https://www.rockriverarms.com/...lay&category_ID=1349

https://www.rockriverarms.com/...lay&category_ID=1335

Unfortunately, those are marked 'Cal. Multi.'

That would be a good alias- Cal Multy

quote:

Originally posted by Hamden106:
https://www.rockriverarms.com/...play&category_ID=191

And, they're not even in stock. "TO PURCHASE, SEE YOUR LOCAL FIREARMS RETAILER/FFL HOLDER". And, we all know what that means. Probably no one has it.

My favorite AR15 happens to have a Colt lower receiver. It is a former LE gun, marked AR15A3 Tactical Carbine, with the Restricted LE/GOV roll mark on the other side of the magwell. The lower is also finished very poorly; lots of rough edges down the seam. In handling the gun, I find the markings endearing; I find the rough edges disappointing. In shooting the gun, neither matters, or is noticed. Overall, I'd say the markings are important though, considering I have gone out of my way the cover a Spike's Tactical spider logo.