quote:

Originally posted by jjkroll32:
Isn't the next new hotness the 6mm Creedmoor?

Could be a nice multitasker rifle if you could find a suitable rifle chambered for it.

A 6mm Creedmoor would certainly be an upgrade to a 243 Win.

The problem with a 204 is that the bullet is so light, a 5 mph crosswind at 300 yards will blow it off target. The 22-250 is faster than a 223, but after 700 rounds you will need a new barrel.

This guy needs heavier bullets, not speed.

On the flip side, if he does go with a bigger bullet, they are significantly easier to see on paper if he wants to transition to target when the vermin dry up. Shooting is a perishable skill.

Wow! Take a day off and the number of options explodes, as will the woodchucks.

I have had some thought of a gun with a little more reach. I do have a 600 yard range complete with earthen backstop and steel targets. I have no experience beyond 300 yards and I have not been trained in precision shooting. I do not see myself seeking out longer than 600.

Is 6mm Creedmoor too much for my intended use?

quote:

Originally posted by burnetma:
Wow! Take a day off and the number of options explodes, as will the woodchucks.

I have had some thought of a gun with a little more reach. I do have a 600 yard range complete with earthen backstop and steel targets. I have no experience beyond 300 yards and I have not been trained in precision shooting. I do not see myself seeking out longer than 600.

Is 6mm Creedmoor too much for my intended use?

No, not at all. I'll put it to you this way - if you ever intend to do any shooting past 300 yards, the 204 and 22-250 won't cut it, and if the wind is blowing more than 15 mph, hang it up. The 6mm (bullet, not a specific round) is only .02 bigger than the 22-250 and 223, but worlds better in ballistics. The 6mm PPC was used for year to dominate the 600 meter benchers competitions. It is better on barrels than the 223 (higher speed rounds), and can be found in loaded match rounds.

There are likely 5-6 loadings available from Remington, Hornady, Sig & Federal.

I'm still say just go .223. Compared to the rest of this low volume specialized stuff ammo and guns are easy -and cheap-. For any of this its perfect we are not trying to win the 600 meter benchers competition, we are shooting woodchucks. And at the ranges that's humane spending twice what .223 costs seems problematic to me. But then we get suggested .308 (not horrible, but why) and then maybe upgrade to .338LM and .50bmg for practice of course these are pretty good as you really don't have to bother with woodchucks.

You can’t go wrong with a .223 bolt gun. Much better cheaper to feed than the alternatives.

I have a Remington 700 VLS in .22-250. Had it about 20 years or so. It has killed many groundhogs from 50 to around 350 yards. I really enjoy the rifle/cartridge combo.

I already have a Howa mini bolt in 6.5 Grendel. Wolf ammo is cheap and if you want exceptional ammo , you can buy factory match or reload. Recoil is mild. Besides, most of those other calibers are too common for my tastes .

I'd go with a caliber that you already have.
Nothing wrong with a 6.8/5.56 in a bolt gun, and you already have the ammo, just a reason to get more of it. To me, expanding on calibers gets expensive. Next thing you know, you mysteriously acquire 3-4 more guns just for that round....

.308 is another reliable and popular round that you can easily find. (Might just turn into a reason for an AR-10 if you don't have one already) 300yds won't be a problem at all with off the shelf rounds & accuracy. Easily work out to 600yds with one.


Never really messed around with a 22-250 much, but haven't heard bad about it.

I plink around with a friends .17hmr to the point of wondering why I haven't got one yet. Pretty accurate out to 250yds with little wind. And have used it on many a raccoon/possum. But that's with little wind, the .17 gets thrown around a lot in the breeze.

You posted that you don't really have experience with precision shooting-
Well, here's your chance!

The majority of my rifles are military calibers. Cheapest, most available ammo. While I do have a 22-250 varmint rifle, it is darn expensive to shoot, so it rarely gets used.

A good way to look at caliber options is via ballistics. Possible information overload, but data versus feelings. You should determine what's more important -- flatter trajectory or lower wind drift. From JBM ballistics, 7000' density altitude, cross wind drift of 10 mph, in MOA.

223 Remy, 55 Vmax, 3100 fps MV
300 yards -- 3.0 MOA drop, 2.8 MOA drift
400 yards -- 5.6 MOA drop, 3.9 MOA drift

223 Remy, 69 FGMM, 2850 MV
300 yards -- 3.5 drop, 2.3 drift
400 yards -- 6.3 drop, 3.2 drift

223 Remy, 73 ELDM, 2800 MV
300 yards -- 3.5 drop, 2.0 drift
400 yards -- 6.2 drop, 2.7 drift

224 Valkyrie, 88 ELDM, 2650 MV
300 yards -- 3.9 drop, 1.7 drift
400 yards -- 6.8 drop, 2.4 drift

22-250 Remy, 55 Vmax, 3500 MV
300 yards -- 1.9 drop, 2.2 drift
400 yards -- 3.9 drop, 3.2 drift

204 Ruger, 40 Vmax, 3500 MV
300 yards -- 1.9 drop, 2.2 drift
400 yards -- 3.8 drop, 3.1 drift

6.5 Grendel, 123 ELDM, 2500 MV
300 yards -- 4.6 drop, 1.8 drift
400 yards -- 7.9 drop, 2.5 drift

6 Creedmoor, 108 ELDM, 2900 MV
300 yards -- 2.9 drop, 1.4 drift
400 yards -- 5.2 drop, 1.9 drift

6.5 Creedmoor, 140 ELDM, 2820 MV
300 yards -- 3.6 drop, 1.3 drift
400 yards -- 6.0 drop, 1.7 drift

I've shot very large prairie dogs with 6.5CM 140 Amax after a precision rifle course. Biggest PDs I've ever seen -- easily in woodchuck size. We shot a "target rich environment" at distances of 250-400 yards.

My 6.5CM was way more rifle than necessary, even with the rapidly expanding plastic tipped Amax bullets. All hits completed powered through the PDs. One time I hit 2 with one shot, as they were standing one behind the other. The bullet still powered through PD #2 with minimal expansion. With spinal hits the PDs flipped up in the air and landed a foot or two away. If the PD was standing sideways and took a belly hit (soft tissue only), the bullets punched straight through, then landed down range 50+ yards. The PDs barely moved -- they just dropped. With all hits the PDs were immediately dead, but a smaller caliber would have been more than adequate.

I think a 223 bolt action is more than adequate for woodchucks at 300 yards. Plenty accurate and completely capable with the right load. You already have 223 ammo, and possibly already the best load for the job.

Fritz knocked it out of the park! Perfect amount of data. Thank you.

.204 Ruger & 22-250 are about as ballistically equal as two rounds can get. I thought both were a bit higher velocity than 3500 ft/sec, but I am probably wrong. Generally, .204 Ruger VMax are $0.20/round cheaper for Vmax, so that is a significant savings.

223 you have to carry a heavier bullet to approach the drift capability of 204 & 22-250. I haven't priced it, but that means $$ and yet another type of 5.56/223 ammo. So, I do not see that buying me much.

I am invested in 6.8 SPC and considered 224V, but never in a bolt gun.

Hmmmm....lots of thinking.

quote:

Originally posted by burnetma:
223 you have to carry a heavier bullet to approach the drift capability of 204 & 22-250. I haven't priced it, but that means $$ and yet another type of 5.56/223 ammo. So, I do not see that buying me much.

You must buy ammo to shoot a new rifle -- that's a given.

A new type of 223 ammo can be used in your existing 223 rifles.
A new type of 204 or 22-250 ammo can only be used in the new rifle chambered for said round.

I doubt you've priced quality 223 Remy ammo against that of 204 and 22-250. Hornady 73 ELDM and especially Hornady 75 Black HPBT are less expensive per shot than quality 204 and 22-250 ammo. Go apples to apples, too -- don't compare prices of cheap FMJ 204 and 22-250 to match quality 223 Remy.