Clearly, this is an area where I don’t know enough. So, as usual, I come to SF with questions.

I’ve been toying with the idea of having my local Class III gunsmith lop off the barrel on an upper that I have, and then mating it to a particular lower, thus creating SBR. I know that involves paperwork (Form 1?) and that must now wait ’til after Jan 1 to be filed in order to avoid the tax stamp. (And because ATF has shut down processing for the week?)

Then this afternoon I saw an ad at Palmetto for a 9” pistol upper for $200 or so. As I understand it — and this is where I need solid advice — a pistol upper mated to a lower and a stock is essentially an SBR. Is that correct?

And at that point, would there be any benefit to simply doing that, versus cutting down a perfectly good existing upper?

I know there’s a lot I don’t know here. Please help me learn it. Thanks, all!


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Edited for punctuation and spelling.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: vthoky,

Yes, if you put an upper with a barrel shorter than 16” on a lower with a stock, then it’s a SBR (not “essentially”, it is). If it’s something pretty common like an AR it’s usually not worth the effort to cut down or swap a barrel. Just get an upper with the barrel you want. You’ll have to get the Form 1 approved and the lower engraved before you put it together.

Or You can buy an AR pistol lower and put a brace on it not a rifle stock. and then put a sub 16” upper on it.

Or buy an NFA registered SBR lower and you won’t need to engrave.

If you have a carbine adjustable stock, you can put a pistol brace in its place.

Rifle stock is a no no.

Don't cut a barrel down, it's cheaper to buy an upper.

^^ Once a Rifle, ALWAYS a Rifle...Don't do that!

You can convert a Pistol to a Rifle, but not the other way around. Even if you purchased a complete Lower Receiver, it's a Rifle and in the eyes of the law, you cannot convert a Rifle to a Pistol. You could remove the stock completely, but you still have a Rifle, and if you mate it to an Upper Receiver with a barrel shorter than 16", you've assembled an SBR.

If you buy a striped lower receiver, it’s just a firearm, but whether it’s a rifle or pistol depends on how you first assemble it. If the first thing you do is put a stock on it, it’s a rifle for life and can’t be made into a pistol by removing the stock and putting a brace on it. If it’s first assembled as a pistol, without a stock, or with a brace, it’s a pistol, and can be swapped to a rifle and back to a pistol again.

Yes, its stupid, and in most cases who’s going to know, but that’s how it is.

It 'really' comes down to how it was originally transferred on the 4473, at least as far as the ATF is concerned. You can do anything you want as long as you don't talk about and/or post pictures of it on the internet. Personally, I will adhere to the letter of the law here, and I would NOT recommend otherwise.

quote:

Can I lawfully make a rifle into a pistol without registering that firearm?

No. A firearm that was originally a rifle would be classified as a “weapon made from a rifle” if it has either a barrel less than 16 inches in length or an overall length of less than 26 inches. If an individual wishes to make an NFA firearm, they must first submit ATF Form 1 (Application to Make and Register a Firearm), pay a $200.00 making tax, and receive approval of the application from ATF before converting the firearm.

[18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3); 26 U.S.C. § 5845(a)(3)-(4)]

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/q...-registering-firearm

I bought a lower to build a pistol and when I did the transfer I tried to get the FFL to ensure that was indicated on the purchase. I think he told me it wasn't.

quote:

Originally posted by Mars_Attacks:
Don't cut a barrel down, it's cheaper to buy an upper.

This is what I’ve been thinking recently, particularly after seeing some nice sale prices on pistol-length uppers at Palmetto State.

quote:

Originally posted by Dwill104:
If the first thing you do is put a stock on it, it’s a rifle for life

I’ve put a stock on the lower already, and I’m okay with it being a rifle for life. Despite the advantages many will talk about, I don’t think I have any interest in an AR pistol at this time.

- - -

So. What I think I understand now is that this would be the order of operations:
- File a Form 1 (a whole ’nother batch of questions I’ll have, I’m sure), requesting approval to build the thing.
- Once the Form 1 is approved, take the lower to my gunsmith and have it engraved.
- Get a pistol upper like this, perhaps.
- Stick the upper and the engraved lower together and go have fun.

Correct?

What happens, then, if we later want to attach an already-owned suppressor to it? Is there additional paperwork that has to be done in order to do that? Or can that be attached and removed at will?

Silencer can be attached and removed at will.

quote:

Originally posted by vthoky:


So. What I think I understand now is that this would be the order of operations:
- File a Form 1 (a whole ’nother batch of questions I’ll have, I’m sure), requesting approval to build the thing.
- Once the Form 1 is approved, take the lower to my gunsmith and have it engraved.
- Get a pistol upper like this, perhaps.
- Stick the upper and the engraved lower together and go have fun.

Correct?

Correct.

You could probably go ahead and have the lower engraved while you wait for approval.

You just can't actually assemble the SBR until you have approval.

The act of engraving doesn't constitute building an SBR in the eyes of the law. The actual configuration of an AR with a barrel less than 16" being put together does.

I just had 3 recently approved SBRs engraved yesterday. My local engraver will NOT engrave anything without looking at the approved form. He told me he need to engrave the firearm EXACTLY as written on Form 1. Full Name. I asked if he can just out down First Name Initial, then my Last Name, then the City and State. He said he can’t. Has to be Full Name as listed on the paper work.

To the OP, just buy a short barrel upper. Do not cut the original upper barrel.

quote:

Originally posted by IndianaBoy:
You could probably go ahead and have the lower engraved while you wait for approval.

You just can't actually assemble the SBR until you have approval.

The act of engraving doesn't constitute building an SBR in the eyes of the law. The actual configuration of an AR with a barrel less than 16" being put together does.

I put what I’m going to engrave on the form in block 4h, which has my middle initial, whereas my full middle name is in block 3b. Never had an issue. I’d find another engraver.

The lowers I buy have no designation if its a rifle or pistol.

All of my SBRs have full proper name, City and State. No initials.

I have it engraved in the mag well lip , then painted.

Now that I’ve nailed down the plan to *not* cut down the barrel on that existing upper, I’m looking at new uppers.

A quick surf at Palmetto shows lengths of 7.5, 8.5, and 10.5 inches. What particular advantages and disadvantages come along with such lengths?

quote:

Originally posted by vthoky:
Now that I’ve nailed down the plan to *not* cut down the barrel on that existing upper, I’m looking at new uppers.

A quick surf at Palmetto shows lengths of 7.5, 8.5, and 10.5 inches. What particular advantages and disadvantages come along with such lengths?

For what caliber? 5.56? Personally, I wouldn’t go shorter than 10.5. Shorter than 10.5 starts really affecting velocity and is very loud and blasty. Always running a can helps, but it’s not going to be hearing safe that short, and you have to look at whether your can has barrel length restrictions.

300 works pretty good shorter than 9 inches. 556 doesn’t run really reliable less than 10.3 and really 11.5 is the sweet spot. 9mm works great at short lengths.

I apologize for leaving that detail out. I’d like to build this in 300 Blackout.

Ten-and-a-half and 8.5 seem very reasonable, I think.

As I’ve said in other discussions, I know I’ve got a lot of learning to do, and I appreciate you guys helping me learn.

^^ihave a AR pistol for this exact issue..
1. It can be transported across state line w/o a letter from ATF
2. It can be shouldered
3. It does not have a stock (it has a brace)
4. I didn’t have to have a stamp

Mines a switch barrel and I have a 10” 300BLK barrel for it and it came with a 5.56 barrel

I put a law adapter on it and it fits into a computer bag and can be assembled in less then 30 seconds.

If there is ever a question the ATF can look up the serial miner and find it was made and transferred to the wholesaler and the 4473 and see it was sold as a pistol.

No stamp
No engraving