I've got a buddy who picked up a rough but serviceable Winchester lever action in 357 magnum. He doesn't have much tied up in it but it will not pick up and load the second round.

Now, I'm no gunsmith...just an avid tinkerer...but he asked me for help. I've never worked on any lever actions before and wondered if anyone could tell me what's going on with it...or most importantly...if I should tell him to take to someone who knows what they're doing, if that person exists.

Here's a video he shot showing the malfunction.



Thanks for your help as I try to help a friend.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: sjames,

I could not get the video to play. Just a pic. I got it to work. It is beyond my pay grade.

Weird. It works for me when I click it.

Anyone else?

If I click it, it opens an external link to a video. So that much is working.

I wish I could help. I badly desire a .357 lever rifle and I hope your friend gets his working correctly.

Something is going on with the cartridge interrupter (because extra round kicked out in video) or less likely, the lifting carrier (timing). What you see as the bottom plate under the receiver, has a lip on the end inside that blocks the round in the mag tube from coming out while the lever is open until you close the lever so the whole plate pivots back into receiver. While this is happening, the lifting carrier is supposed to be all the way down (when lever is closed) so when the lever is closed, the next round pops out "onto" the lifting carrier and the next time you open the lever fully, it pushes the lifting carrier upwards to align the cartridge with the barrel.


I'd "guess" that "lip" is worn or damaged and not controlling cartridge feeding as it's supposed to because the next cartridge from the magazine should not come out of the magazine until the lever is like a 1/2 inch from being closed fully.. With the lever open as far as you have it in the video, the extra cartridges should not be coming out of the mag tube. There may be other timing issues, but the cartridge control would appear to be the main culpret if I am interpreting what's going on in your video correctly.

In the following pic I highlighted the lip that control cartridge feeding. If it's trying to feed multiple cartridges it would also explain the jamming as the extra cartridge trying to feed would jam up the lifting carrier.



With the lever open, that lip should be pivoted up and blocking any rounds from coming out of the mag tube.

I don't "believe" there is any difference between the different caliber link plates, just a difference in the lifting carriers; but I'm not positive. If I'm correct, then any of the used ones on Ebay, for $20 or so should work "Assuming" that it is indeed the link causing your problems. Or of course, you can just use a welder and build up the lip and file smooth if it's been damaged.

^^^^ What he said. It is also possible that the interrupter is dirty or fouled in some way. A serious clean may cure the problem. But detail stripping a Winchester lever is not for the faint of heart. Rough but serviceable can mean filthy inside.

What I see is the feed tube is failing to retain rounds.
Has it been removed and then installed?
The tube has a stop to round in place till elevator allows rounds to be in pick up station

Excellent descriptions! Thank you for troubleshooting this for me.

With what you guys have suggested, I feel like I can give a repair a shot.

No one shouted, “NO! Don’t attempt!” so I’ll go slow and take lots of pictures.

I’ll be back after I’ve picked the rifle up from him.

Thanks.

Pistol caliber lever actions can be busy with over all length. Is this problem with .357's? (and not 38's)

quote:

Originally posted by cas:
Pistol caliber lever actions can be busy with over all length. Is this problem with .357's? (and not 38's)

Yup! This ^^^

quote:

Originally posted by cas:
Pistol caliber lever actions can be busy with over all length. Is this problem with .357's? (and not 38's)

I don’t have it in my hands yet but I’ll check.

Thanks!

Gummed up cartridge interrupter is my guess or a broken spring
Also as mentioned if trying to use 38’s in a 357 will frequently do that
Also need to judge it racking from the shoulder with full force. When running a lever gun the lever should be ripped on hard. Gentle cycling will often cause jams that disappear when you run the gun with sufficient muscle.

Those cartridges in the vid sure look like .357 length to me. If the timing is right, slow cycling should not result in this kind of double feed. Either the cartridge interrupter is not doing it’s job for whatever reason or timing is off. Hopefully it’s an easy fix.

Has anyone asked Winchester themselves about this? I’m unfamiliar with their warranty process but a lot of big manufacturers are more helpful than not.

Update on Rifle:

I wanted to follow up on this thread, if for nothing other than to break up the Ground Hog Day-esque cycle we're in!

Well, it took me a little while to get to work on the gun but I took it apart with no trouble, cleaned it, found some concerning things, put it back together and it's still malfunctioning.


The inside was filthy and was terribly rusty in a number of spots. I scrapped and cleaned as best I could and it was a dramatic improvement.


As best as I can tell, this is PROBABLY the culprit but it doesn't seemed damaged enough to cause the issues that are happening.







Notice the crack in the end of the link.

Instead of throwing parts at it, the rifle owner said he knew another guy who worked on levers more frequently so I gave it back to him.

I'm sure he can get it working.

Anyways, thanks for the wisdom! I enjoyed learning to take it apart and put it back together through some helpful youtube videos and was impressed by how simple the design actually was.

Incredibly compact design when you consider all that takes place with this mode of operation.

Anyways...have a nice day!

This may or may not apply to your problem. I have a 1904 vintage 1892 Winchester that had "some work" done on it by a previous owner. That work involved a re-barrel to 357 Magnum and re-polishing and bluing the receiver and lever. He also changed out the stock and forearm with some very nicely figured Walnut. End result is a very pretty Shooter with no collectable value at all.

Unfortunately that previous owner did NOT understand how the magazine tube is removed. It ended up with a deep dent in the tube where the retaining pin engages a notch in the tube. Since the pin was not able to reach that groove sitting deep into a rather large dent the magazine tube would shoot loose within 2 or 3 shots fired. Even with the nail polish that the previous owner used to try and glue it in place. My solution was fight the magazine tube out of the forearm and receiver so that it could be put right. Made up an ID mandrel the matching the tube ID and pushed/tapped that mandrel into the dent and then gently hammered the tube back to a nice round shape. Now the rifle runs perfectly. I've also shot 3 consecutive groups just under an inch at 100 yards so it's a keeper.

Point is, take a look at the position of the magazine tube. If it's slid out of position be even 1/8 inch it can cause huge feed issues. Tips for determining this are to look at the front saddle mount and the marks left on the magazine tube by the saddle mount. BTW, if the rifle has been shot a lot these mounts will leave marks on the magazine tube. One other thing to look at is the position of the cross pin that retains the tube. With that pin in place there should be no wiggle at all front to rear of the tube and very little to zero room for any rotational wiggle.

BTW, if a pin is missing or you need any other parts HOMESTEADPARTS.COM is a great source of parts for Winchester lever actions pre-dating WWII. They may also have parts for later production Winchesters and the Moroku made Winchesters but I do not know that for certain.