HK433

February 25, 2018, 08:43 AM

Dakor

HK433

With Sig withdrawing from the German Bundeswehr trials (for their armed services rifle replacement) & Rheinmetall/Steyr-Mannlicher out, the HK433’s potential adoption is improved. If it does succeed, a civilian variant would almost certainly be launched. Given the U.S. import law restriction (stupidity) and the U.S. being the largest market, it would seem logical that HK produce some # of these in their GA plant. My fingers are tightly crossed this is the case and curious if any SF members have heard or read of any such plans.

February 25, 2018, 04:27 PM

Black92LX

What gives you the indication that a civilian variant would be made??

February 25, 2018, 05:49 PM

Dakor

quote:
Originally posted by Black92LX:
What gives you the indication that a civilian variant would be made??

So a corporation shouldn’t pursue an adjacent market by creating a one-off product using a manufacturing facility that may have capacity & uses close to the same resources (supplies, equipment & personnel)? What percent of HK firearms were historically introduced into both markets (discounting differences in class 3 firearm operation)?
To the best of my knowledge, the German Republic currently fields the G36 (the civilian versions of which are the HK243 and the older SLR), in addition to the HK416A5 / G38 (the civilian version of which is the MR556A1).

February 25, 2018, 07:13 PM

Black92LX

quote:
Originally posted by Dakor:
quote:
Originally posted by Black92LX:
What gives you the indication that a civilian variant would be made??

So a corporation shouldn’t pursue an adjacent market by creating a one-off product using a manufacturing facility that may have capacity & uses close to the same resources (supplies, equipment & personnel)? What percent of HK firearms were historically introduced into both markets (discounting differences in class 3 firearm operation)?
To the best of my knowledge, the German Republic currently fields the G36 (the civilian versions of which are the HK243 and the older SLR), in addition to the HK416A5 / G38 (the civilian version of which is the MR556A1).

I made no suggestion that they shouldn’t. I would love if they did. My question is what gives the indication that they will?
Outside of their AR platform HK is not known for bringing their rifles to the US civilian market that he was referring to.
Unless I am missing something. I have never seen a Civilian model G36 for sale in the states with any substantial numbers if at all.

The SL8 and USC maybe but those are far neutered products of their original deliniation.

February 25, 2018, 07:29 PM

RogueJSK

quote:
Originally posted by Black92LX:
Outside of their AR platform HK is not known for bringing their rifles to the US civilian market

Exactly. HK is pretty notorious for this.

February 25, 2018, 07:42 PM

Andyb

A classic HK move would be to discontinue the MR556 and still not sell the 433

February 25, 2018, 07:57 PM

RHINOWSO

quote:
Originally posted by Andyb:
A classic HK move would be to discontinue the MR556 and still not sell the 433

Lol, no doubt!

February 25, 2018, 09:31 PM

Echtermetzger

quote:
& Rheinmetall/Steyr-Mannlicher out

huh? when was that?

February 25, 2018, 10:52 PM

Dakor

quote:
Originally posted by Echtermetzger:
quote:
& Rheinmetall/Steyr-Mannlicher out

huh? when was that?

http://augengeradeaus.net/2018...nnlicher-steigt-aus/

February 25, 2018, 10:56 PM

jljones

Military weapons designers (HK and FN most come to mind) have a different way of viewing things. They believe in this pecking order.

1)the military
2) ?
3) ?
4) the military
5) ?
6) everybody else.

The just march to the beat of a different drum. I was on the implementation team at work to get a new rifle for SWAT. I wanted the SCAR-L in a 10.5 because I was shooting SCARs a lot at the time and can shoot the crap out of one. I went to the armorers school and everything. When we began to discuss replacement parts, FN said "Ah, you can order them from Winchester like everyone else". I found out that they didn't have a supply chain for LE for their products. Whatever extra spare parts they have at the time a contract is over, they'd dump into the civilian side.

Needless to say HK got the contract from us. And they were only slightly better but they could guarantee us a pipeline to get parts. They couldn't guarantee us that we'd actually be able to get the parts, but that there was a pipeline.

Years later, we are slowly phasing out all the 10 inch guns that have been worn out for off the shelf 14.5 inch guns.

February 27, 2018, 07:23 AM

HERITAGE

Like Dakor, I hope they produce a semi-auto version of the 433 in their GA plant. They made a few HK 45 and 45C there. Did production of those pistols go back to Germany? Why build the plant here in the US if not to overcome the import restrictions?

February 27, 2018, 07:33 AM

RHINOWSO

quote:
Originally posted by HERITAGE:
Like Dakor, I hope they produce a semi-auto version of the 433 in their GA plant. They made a few HK 45 and 45C there. Did production of those pistols go back to Germany? Why build the plant here in the US if not to overcome the import restrictions?

They also export weapons from the US plant to get around restrictions from exporting from Germany, or at least that is what I've read.

February 27, 2018, 08:17 AM

Dwill104

The G36 has been out for 20 years or so, and HK did in fact make a civilian version of it called the SL-8, which was released in the late 90s. However, it was badly neutered. Since then, they’ve released a more straightforward G36 clone called the HK243, which has been available in Europe for a few years now, but no plans have been announced for them to start making them in the US. Remember, HK is a German company and Germany has export restrictions on weapons of war, in addition to the US import restrictions.

The main reason for them building the new plant in the US is to support building HK416/M27s and pistols for Mil/LE contracts. Civilians get the benefits on the pistols because there are a lot less restrictions on them and there is more of a market, but for rifles, it’s tougher, meaning either they have to be made from a mix of US/German parts, or made entirely in the US. The chances of them making a civilian HK433 just for us without them getting a big German government contract is about zero. Even if they did, the chances of them making a US civilian version aren’t great, given the hoops involved.

February 27, 2018, 09:13 AM

HERITAGE

Thanks for the info RHINOWSO; that makes sense too.

February 27, 2018, 10:27 AM

WARPIG602

quote:
Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
quote:
Originally posted by HERITAGE:
Like Dakor, I hope they produce a semi-auto version of the 433 in their GA plant. They made a few HK 45 and 45C there. Did production of those pistols go back to Germany? Why build the plant here in the US if not to overcome the import restrictions?
They also export weapons from the US plant to get around restrictions from exporting from Germany, or at least that is what I've read.

Do you not have to have a plant stateside to in order to get mil contracts here? I thought thats why the opened the plant in Ga?

February 27, 2018, 10:51 AM

LDD

Having a plant in the US does get them around import restrictions, but they'd still have to make the decision to manufacture the rifles here.

If their plant is set up to manufacture M27s and pistols, and the US military does not buy their 433s, there'd have to be enough market to create an entirely separate line of semi-auto 433s because the 433 doesn't have a lot in common with the M27 or HK's pistols. That's a lot of investment for products that are on the cutting edge of most politicians ban-wish-list.

February 27, 2018, 12:50 PM

Il Cattivo

quote:
Originally posted by Dakor:
quote:
Originally posted by Echtermetzger:
quote:
& Rheinmetall/Steyr-Mannlicher out

huh? when was that?

http://augengeradeaus.net/2018...nnlicher-steigt-aus/

Crud. So the odds of us seeing one here in the US anytime like soon just plummeted.