What am I missing?
Is KAC really that good?
https://battlehawkarmory.com/p...vad=263793_f4d97cec9

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:
What am I missing?
Is KAC really that good?
https://battlehawkarmory.com/p...vad=263793_f4d97cec9

I own an SR15 and an SR25, no they're not THAT good.

It's supply and demand, the Rolex invneotry control concept.

They're not that good, but there are plenty of people willing to PAY for it. Therefore, the price reflects that. Take off that roll mark and the price would drop a bit.

I paid extra for my Radian lower (part of a package) because the machining was noticeably a cut above and I really liked the other mechanical modifications they made. It has a really slick ambi magazine/bolt release and a handy bolt lock back feature built into the lower. It still wasn't that much. Plus the Radian version is much prettier.

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:
What am I missing?
Is KAC really that good?

The one guy I know who is a diehard KAC advocate is also the same guy who paid $7k for an actual Mk12 upper, one of the ones that shows up in some pics that float around online of a particular SEAL who had it in Afghanistan in the early 00's. Same guy has owned three or four of the dozen or so known legit Mk12 uppers.

That's who the KAC prices are for. That guy, and guys who would like to be That Guy.

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:

The one guy I know who is a diehard KAC advocate is also the same guy who paid $7k for an actual Mk12 upper, one of the ones that shows up in some pics that float around online of a particular SEAL who had it in Afghanistan in the early 00's. Same guy has owned three or four of the dozen or so known legit Mk12 uppers.

That's who the KAC prices are for. That guy, and guys who would like to be That Guy.

Dont get me started on MK12 uppers.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeGLI:
Dont get me started on MK12 uppers.

"This rail has a swan rollmark with one wing and so it's worth five times more than this other rail that has a rollmark with a swan that has two wings."

I'm paraphrasing, but yes, we had that discussion. A rollmark the diameter of a fucking pencil eraser.

KAC guys. Mk12 guys.

There was a thread about the KAC guy going wackadoodle a while back iirc. Is all fine now.
Yeah, I would love a 7.62 rifle, but.

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MikeGLI:

"This rail has a swan rollmark with one wing and so it's worth five times more than this other rail that has a rollmark with a swan that has two wings."

I'm paraphrasing, but yes, we had that discussion. A rollmark the diameter of a fucking pencil eraser.

Is this going to be like Stamps or Coins?

OOOHHH!!!! THIS one 8X as much because someone forgot to instal the dust cover!
That one is 4X more because there's no stock!


Don't get me wrong, KAC has an awesome AR, but $700 for a Blem Lower? Hell naw!
I'm thinking BattleHawk got their hands on KAC Blems for +/- $250 a piece and decided to make money off the KAC logo.

No lower is worth is $700, from a standpoint of the overall utility it provides to the rifle. However, some folks will pay more for form, rather than function.

Now a fully assembled KAC rifle is a little different matter. They are definitely among the best of rifles. I don't own a KAC, but I've shot a few in training courses.

The SR-15 is a very nice rifle. I'd be fine with owning one. As expected, I haven't seen one malfunction unless an instructor induces it. That goes for many AR15 rifles. I find that SR15s exhibit very good, but not outstanding accuracy. The SR15s I've shot and been around do not offer the accuracy of my Wilson Combat and SI Defense-based AR15s.

Now an SR-25 is in a different class. They are definitely among the very best AR10s, in both function and accuracy. There are only a few AR10s with better accuracy than an SR25. I've shot a GAP10 that was more accurate, however GAP10s must be regularly lubed and cleaned -- something not necessary with an SR25. Same with a JP. My own Black Rain Ordnance based AR10s are more accurate than an SR25, but part of that could be due to caliber -- Creedmoor vs 308. The most impressive shooting with an SR25 that I've seen was by Nick Irving in a precision training course, not long after he returned from deployment as a sniper.

You can get three Griffin ambi lowers for less than a single KAC lower. I'm 100% sure it would be just as good as the KAC. I don't own a KAC ambi lower as it's ludicrously priced. I don't own a Griffin as the roll mark is ugly and ambi isn't a huge priority. If it was, I'd get the Griffin. Blems can be had for about $190, right now.

As it stands I do have one of the non-ambi KAC lowers unassembled from the fiasco that killed BoltCarrier.com, so that kind of scratches the itch. If I cared about ambi AND had Rolex $$$, though, I'm sure an ambi KAC lower would follow me home. I do like the roll mark after all.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Vgex,

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:
There are only a few AR10s with better accuracy than an SR25.

Do you have any experience with the HK MR762? Specifically the accuracy.

I would love a matching lower to go with my KAC upper but I decided on LMT mars instead for a lot less money

quote:

Originally posted by MikeGLI:
Do you have any experience with the HK MR762? Specifically the accuracy.

Yes. A few years ago I attended a course which mainly covered shooting from moving positions & barriers, but we also spent the final day on precision long range. One student brought a KAC SR25, S&B PMII scope. One guy brought an HK MR762 and an HK MR556, both with S&B PMII scopes. Third guy had a JP AR10 in 6.5CM, and a mid-level scope that I no longer recall. I took an AR15 with SI Defense receivers, Krieger barrel, Wilson Combat BCG & trigger, and a NF ATACR scope.

The instructor encouraged us to get behind each other's rifles, which most of us did. The JP guy was cool. The KAC guy was fine, once we warmed up from a couple days of shooting. The H&K guy was typical H&K -- "I own H&K rifles, and you suck."

Cutting to the chase, I produced the best accuracy with my AR15 -- at pretty much any distance from 100 to 800 yards. My SI's 500 to 800 yard targets were noticeably better than the KAC, and head an shoulders above both H&Ks. The H&Ks struggled to hold really tight vertical. The JP was really close to my SI Defense, and with a better optics setup it would have been the most accurate rifle at distances beyond 300-ish yards. I couldn't get the parallax to be crystal clear for my eyes, his scope was a little low for my tastes (requiring an overly hard cheek weld), and his scope was a little far back for my tastes. We all used decent ammo. FGMM 175, FGMM 77, Prime 130 Creedmoor. I had Hornady Black BTHP 75. Shot in southern Texas with mild spring temps. Winds varied from pleasant to "How the hell do we make decent wind calls?"

IMO H&K rifles are built for durability, flawless function, and long barrel life. Good rifles. Their piston systems mean they can't match a DI system's accuracy. Their barrels aren't up to the accuracy standards of a JP, Krieger, Bartlein, and maybe even a Wilson Combat.

The lower really isn’t anything special. Look at the number of guys from SOF that are running a URGI of sorts on a ratty M16A1 lower. I would venture to say that a in-spec lower is an in-spec lower is an in-spec lower.

To me, what separates the $600 AR from the $2500 AR is the upper/barrel at 5000 rounds. We don’t trade rifles at work. We drop new uppers ever so often and keep shooting. On of the defining days of my life was replacing HK416 uppers with 11.5 BCM MLOK. I hate those things.

Even BCM is getting ridiculous. Their complete lower used to be less than $400. Now it’s $525 “on sale”.

Call me crazy but a PSA lower with the enhanced trigger for under $170 is a excellent set up. Not just the price, but the quality is also very, very good.

quote:

Originally posted by old rugged cross:
Call me crazy but a PSA lower with the enhanced trigger for under $170 is an excellent set up. Not just the price, but the quality is also very, very good.

Crazy,

You’re not wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
I hate those things.

Which things?

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

To me, what separates the $600 AR from the $2500 AR is the upper/barrel at 5000 rounds. We don’t trade rifles at work. We drop new uppers ever so often and keep shooting. On of the defining days of my life was replacing HK416 uppers with 11.5 BCM MLOK. I hate those things.

Glad to hear this. I’ve carried a Rock River for the last 20 years. It’s old tired and heavy but a trusty rifle.
It’s time for a refresh and now that SBRs and suppressors are approved I am wanting an 11.5” gun. Really just thinking of buying a nice 11.5” complete upper and slapping it on the Rock River lower after I form 1 it.

I recently picked up both Griffin MK2 and Aero M4E1 Pro ambi stripped lowers for about $200 each, so $700 for a stripped blem KAC lower doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. But, some people want to do a very specific brand build and will pay whatever it takes to scratch that itch.