I’m just exploring my options at this point. I’m considering I want to get the next cartridge above 556 in terms of ballistic performance.

I think the choice in terms of AR-10s is between.308 and 6.5, right? Is there an equally viable caliber?

Between.308 and 6.5 creedmore what are the significant differences that should be my considerations in choosing between the two? Choosing both is not an option

You will get lots of recommendations for the 6.5.

Me, am in the .308 camp. 600yds is plenty of distance for me. Recoil is not a factor to me either. Being able to shoot a 150-180gr. bullet is a big plus. My AR10 is a joy to shoot. Is plenty accurate. Has plenty of punch and will reach out plenty far for me.

I have nothing against the CM. I just have no need.

Ymmv

The first question to be asked about any such inquiry is what sort of shooting do you anticipate doing with the rifle and cartridge?

Others may chime in because the 6.5 Creedmoor is a (if not “the”) hotness these days as compared with the venerable 308 Winchester. But a few of my thoughts based on owning essentially identical rifles chambered for the two rounds:

It’s generally acknowledged that the 6.5 is better for long range shooting because of better ballistic performance of the bullets suitable for the task. But what do we mean by “long” range? If it’s only 200 or 300 yards, I doubt that the theoretical differences matter much. Some, but not very much.

Because the 6.5 is a smaller caliber that generally uses lighter bullets, felt recoil may be less. I don’t notice any difference when shooting my two rifles, but I’ve never compared them side by side on a bench, and I shoot moderate loads in the 308. I also use muzzle brakes and sometimes suppressors with fairly heavy rifles.

One thing that also seems to be generally accepted is that the smaller caliber (6.5 v. 7.62mm) will have a shorter barrel life, perhaps by a lot.

For hunting at usual distances (no 900+ yard shots on whitetails), either cartridge will work about the same on medium-sized game. But despite the asserted claim that that 6.5 loads can be used to successfully hunt moose, for larger animals, larger, heavier bullets provide greater margins of error in terms of wound ballistics.

When I discuss law enforcement sniping, I also strongly favor the 308 for reasons that have nothing to do with its long range performance.

These days I prefer my 6.5 Tikka by a small margin. I seem to shoot it more accurately and with Hornady match ammunition the groups may be consistently a little smaller. Whether that is due to the cartridge characteristics or because the 6.5 is a little easier to shoot well, I don’t know. I’m also going off general perceptions, not rigorous testing and analysis, but I generally do a bit better with the 6.5 in certain drills that I shoot with both rifles.

I discuss some of the differences in this thread:
https://sigforum.com/eve/forum...935/m/7470031074/p/1

In any event, there’s no doubt that the 6.5 is generally more popular these days among reviewers who are just punching holes in paper or ringing steel. When I look for reviews of certain rifles, the 6.5s always outnumber the 308s by a large margin.

The difference is pretty academic unless you are trying to shoot at extended ranges (beyond 400y) where less wind drift makes a difference and first round hits on target are important.


For a rifle to shoot PRS competitions, 6.5 all day long unless you are willing to go even further and try one of the more niche 6mm cartridges like the 6BR, 6BRA, 6 Dasher or 6 GT.

For a general purpose rifle to shoot steel, or deer, or whatever.... go with whichever floats your boat and meets your cost per round criteria.


All else being equal, 6.5 has better ballistic performance at long range. Less drop and less wind deflection.

I have rifles in both calibers.
It depends on how far you plan to shoot and the weather conditions when you shoot.
308 ammo is less expensive and easier to find.
I have a range that goes to 600 meters. At that range I don't see much difference between the two.
The 308 can handle much heavier bullets, if you plan to hunt I would pick the 308.
If you plan to target shoot past 600 yards I would pick the 6.5 Creedmore.
If I had to do it again I would not buy a 6.5 Creedmore, I would buy one of the newer 6.5 cartridges that produce much more energy or go with a 7mm.

I have both & I agree with the other posts. Out to 6-700 yds there is no significant difference (maybe perceived recoil). Where the 6.5CM starts to outshine the 308 is at longer range It shoots flatter & can stay supersonic past 1,000yds.
It's also much cheaper & easier to find 308 than 6.5CM these days.
It depends on what you want & need the rifle to do.

Gents,

I've had both cartridges and like them very much. The .308 will do 95%+ of what needs to be done. One reason it is still so popular. I continue to use both and am having a G.A. Precision "Crusader" built in 6.5 Creedmoor.

My "go to" rifle is a G.A. Precision "Rock" in .308.



The .308 is a fine round, but I find both useful.

Wes

quote:

Between.308 and 6.5 creedmore what are the significant differences that should be my considerations in choosing between the two?

I think you need to ask "what am I killing?" > paper, metal plates or animals?

Certainly for hunting there are some differences, I refer you to Ron Spomer for a good analysis of the differences of almost any hunting cartridge.

If shooting paper and gongs ~ 6.5 is a better choice especially with wind, distances are about the same.

I have both and Fritz convinced me to try the 6.5CM (no not centimeters, ).
It was especially painful $$ to ramp up ~ from the gun to the ammo to the reloading supplies.
Because I had already have a big supply of 308.

Shooting, it is a little new for me to tell about accuracy as I recently acquired the 6.5 and having completed my load testing yet.
Very promising, less recoil and so far very impressed.

I would say since you mentioned the AR10:
Are you going to get your weapon as an AR .... not bolt action?
IMO, the AR is better served with 308 as it seems the 6.5 likes a longer barrel.
Of course, the purpose is important.
I have 3 AR10's in 20,18 and 16 inch, none in 6.5CM.
I may convert one of the AR's to 6.5 but my 20" and 18" are extremely accurate.
Overall, a bolt action serve both better in a lot of ways.

Good Luck and let us know (with pictures) on your course of action.

One more thing, those two cartridges aren't the only viable loads.
There are plenty of other great ones in 6mm and the variations.
Again, better served with bolt actions.
Of course if you don't reload, that is a real consideration and the mainstream 308 or 6.5CM might be a better choice.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
The first question to be asked about any such inquiry is what sort of shooting do you anticipate doing with the rifle and cartridge?

Thank you everyone for your collective wisdom. You narrowed it down to 308 for me.

As to the first question that should have been answered, I hope I can answer by pointing out I’m not a very good golfer. I consistently score well over 100 but I like the game. And when I bought my third set of clubs just before the year 2000 which I still currently use, I bought the one and two irons. If you don’t know, nobody plays the 1 and 2 iron; I think most pros don’t even play the 3 iron. I bought them because it makes a complete set for me even though I don’t play with them or the 3 iron either. I just have them. I’m a little OCD that way.

6.5 is technically better, but it's way more expensive and cannot be bought in bulk. I don't generally shoot past 600 and have lots of auto loading rifles to feed, so I stick with .308.

quote:

6.5 is technically better, but it's way more expensive

Flatter: Yes.
I would NOT say 6.5 is WAY more expensive, but details matter on what you are comparing.

My hangup is that if I am shooting an autoloader I want it in a common caliber. Throwing specialty brass in the weeds disturbs my wa. Now for a bolt action, it would be different.

If you are hunting very large game then the .308 has advantages.

If you are shooting long distances the 6.5 is objectively superior. though the 6mm Creed is quite a bit better still.

If I personally were looking for a hunting rifle today I'd probably go 6.5 Creed. Price for quality ammo and components is essentially identical now between the two.

If surplus ammo and/or a USGI connection matters to you, then .308.

But 6.5 Creed has overcome the doubters and become pretty ubiquitous for a reason.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Watson:
My hangup is that if I am shooting an autoloader I want it in a common caliber. Throwing specialty brass in the weeds disturbs my wa. Now for a bolt action, it would be different.

Yeah, get a brass catcher and FWIW, brass cost on either caliber are about the same.

You will like the .308 alot REH. And like many or us. Won't feel deprived by not doing the CM thing.

When I escape my state my first new firearm will be an AR10 build in .308. The 6.5CM can perform nicely out of an AR, but I am wanting a new “go-to” build, and would be more concerned with large bears than stationary steel plates.

quote:

Originally posted by Rey HRH:

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
The first question to be asked about any such inquiry is what sort of shooting do you anticipate doing with the rifle and cartridge?

As to the first question that should have been answered, I hope I can answer by pointing out I’m not a very good golfer. I consistently score well over 100 but I like the game. And when I bought my third set of clubs just before the year 2000 which I still currently use, I bought the one and two irons. If you don’t know, nobody plays the 1 and 2 iron; I think most pros don’t even play the 3 iron. I bought them because it makes a complete set for me even though I don’t play with them or the 3 iron either. I just have them. I’m a little OCD that way.

The best results with the human-equipment-activity interface comes when the components are matched. I score in the low-to-mid 80s on 6000-6700 yard courses, which translates to "Dude -- don't quit yer day job." I broke into the 70s last year for the first time on a tight course, where smart short iron play and good putting are key. After 20 years with the same trusty clubs, last year I bought a new set. I like the sound & feel of forged cavity back irons, hate the mushy feel & flyers of game improvement irons. With multiple fitting sessions, I went with Callaway Apex irons and Ping Glide 4.0 wedges -- the middle ground. I hit my 4 iron 210-220 yards, but I only carry it for certain types of courses -- where I can hit it off a short tee or from a perfect fairway. My club fitter said a 4i was OK for me, but she honestly recommended a 4 hybrid. I have no business even touching 1-3 irons. Purchasing a 1, 2, or 3 iron would be a waste of my money.

Applying such concepts to shooting, consider the options....

There's no need to look at 6mm, 7mm, or .338 bore AR10s for your first rifle. 6.5 or 308 works.

308 Win advantages:
- For high-volume shooters, barrel life for a 308 is twice that of a 6.5. However, most gun owners will never shoot out a barrel.
- There are more low-cost factory ammo options, mainly due to FMJ and military-type loads. Note that the costs for quality hunting, defense, and match ammo are comparable between the calibers.
- The LGS and the back woods mom-and-pop store will likely have more 308 ammo in stock.
- Muzzle velocity is less compromised by shorter barrels with a 308.
- Loads can use heavier bullets, which can be an advantage with large game.
- Depending on load, 150-200 foot pound higher muzzle energy than 6.5CM. However, the 308's kinetic energy advantage is gone by 250-300 yards.
- Depending on load-altitude-barrel, match ammo can remain supersonic to about 1100 yards.

6.5 Creedmoor advantages:
- Noticeable reduction in recoil. Depending on load, 1/4 to 1/3 less than 308.
- Flatter trajectory at all distances.
- Reduced wind drift at all distances.
- The above 3 points combine to produce increased accuracy at all distances.
- Muzzle velocity is better improved by longer barrels with a 6.5.
- Depending on load, 100-ish foot pound higher kinetic energy at 450-ish yards than 308. Then increasing steadily as distances increase.
- Depending on load-altitude-barrel, match ammo can remain supersonic to about 1600 yards.

Carefully consider your rifle-sights-ammo-shooter capabilities, and match those to your shooting goals. If 308 better meets those goals, then it's the better option for you.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:
6.5 Creedmoor advantages:
- Noticeable reduction in recoil. Depending on load, 1/4 to 1/3 less than 308.

This is the thing that interests me the most. Given a close range unsupported shot, can you get off 3 hits instead of 2 with 308? 2 instead of 1?

I'm a 308 fan. Great barrel life, accurate, easy to find loaded ammo or reloading components, and I like the range of 30 caliber bullets available.

Gents,

Try the new Sierra Match King 169 grain bullet. Incredibly high BC and will make the .308 a true 1,000 yard gun, IMHO. My limited testing shows wonderful accuracy to 600 yards (the farthest I can shoot locally).





My load is:

169 Gr. SMK
42.2 Gr./IMR-4064
Fed 210 Match Primer
Lapua Brass (new)
OAL: 2.87"

IMHO, this brings the .308 much closer to the 6.5 Ballistically.

Wes