Schmidt and Bender Scopes

May 04, 2017, 11:53 AM

Billy346

I've been mulling over scopes for my newly acquired LMT MWS 308 rifle. Since the rifle drained my gun fund, I'm having to wait a while before buying a scope.

I intend to use the rifle for precision shooting, and also hunting. The last time I posted on this subject, you guys recommended Nightforce and Leupold, both of which appear to be excellent products. I'm also looking at Schmidt and Bender and wanted to know what you guys thought. The link below points to one possiblity. What do you guys think?

http://www.schmidtundbender.de...5-10x56-klassik.html

May 04, 2017, 12:28 PM

K.O.A.M.

I have a Schmidt & Bender short dot (1x4) and have been very happy with it. There have been allegations from a competitor's representative that the latest Schmidt and Bender products are not to the quality of the older ones, but I have not seen any evidence to substantiate that.

May 04, 2017, 12:32 PM

GarandGuy

Here's my two cents, while I have no personal experience shooting with Schmidt and Bender optics, I've handled them and have had factory sales reps tell me about them. I can say two things, they seem impressive and expensive. My honest opinion is the Nightforce, Leupold, Schmidt and Bender, Steiner, Vortex, Kahles, Trijicon, and a dozen others make superb optics.

A former employee of mine had just gotten out of the Marine Corp, he was a Force Recon Marine and sung the praises of Schmidt and Bender optics. He told me that they operated with S&B's, they always held zero and would survive the harshest conditions. He always kept pressing me to bring them into the fold. According to him S&B optics reigned supreme. I honestly don't think you can go wrong with any of the aforementioned manufacturers. I think you should lay out a price and weigh what type of reticle is important to you.

May 04, 2017, 05:08 PM

ceptor781

My only experience is with a 1x4 ShortDot. Was an amazingly clear and rugged scope. It was also heavy as hell and not cheap. In the end I decided it was way more scope than I needed at the time so I sold it. I'll have another when it's time to get another serious scope.

May 04, 2017, 11:50 PM

low8option

Just went through the same process buying a new scope for a long range prairie dog gun. For my purposes I needed a scope that functioned at all ranges and with dependable and accurate adjustments. I wanted a First Focal with the best glass possible and as much magnification as I could get. After a lot of research and handling scopes I narrowed my choices down to the Schmidt Bender PMII 5-25x56 and the Nightforce ATACR 7-35x56. Prices on the two were close. S&B have been the leader in the long range game for years and is the one most people compare their product too. My other guns all sport various Nightforce scopes with the MOAR reticles so in the end I went Nightforce because of my familiarity with it and it having a lot more power (5-25 vs 7-35) but I sure thought long and hard on the S&B.

Just my $0.02 but study the features of the scopes and think hard on what you want to do with the scope and then pick the features that you will use. What range will you be shooting and what is your target. A deer at 100-200 yards require a lot less scope than someone competing or shooting a nine inch creature at 1000 yards. Will you be banging around in the bush hence needing a rugged scope or can you get by with a less rugged built hunting scope. The more features and quality of the glass are all reflected in the price tag and for it to be worth the price then you need to be able to use them.

NikonUser posted a great primer on riflescopes. If you haven't read it yet you should as it is very enlightening.

May 05, 2017, 05:39 AM

Billy346

quote:
Originally posted by low8option:

Just my $0.02 but study the features of the scopes and think hard on what you want to do with the scope and then pick the features that you will use. What range will you be shooting and what is your target. A deer at 100-200 yards require a lot less scope than someone competing or shooting a nine inch creature at 1000 yards. Will you be banging around in the bush hence needing a rugged scope or can you get by with a less rugged built hunting scope. The more features and quality of the glass are all reflected in the price tag and for it to be worth the price then you need to be able to use them.

NikonUser posted a great primer on riflescopes. If you haven't read it yet you should as it is very enlightening.

Thank You!

May 05, 2017, 08:25 AM

offgrid

quote:
Originally posted by K.O.A.M.:
There have been allegations from a competitor's representative that the latest Schmidt and Bender products are not to the quality of the older ones, but I have not seen any evidence to substantiate that.

I'm surrounded by fellow LR range competitors who have S&B's. Thousands of rounds through their older/newer S&B's yearly, often in very dirty/dusty conditions. No mention of old vs new quality.... Fellow Colorado member Alpine is one of them. Good to see this stuff first hand!

May 05, 2017, 08:33 AM

IndianaBoy

http://precisionrifleblog.com/...nge-scopes-pros-use/

May 05, 2017, 01:54 PM

swage

I had a S&B 5-25 PMII with an H2CMR reticle.

I had tracking issues with mine right away. I had it serviced which took a very long time.

Be aware they only have a 2 year warranty. I sold it and bought a Razor Gen 2 and haven't looked back.

I considered the Kahles and Nightforce. I'm happy with my decision to buy the Vortex.

May 05, 2017, 04:29 PM

jezsuiz

I think you can get a near quality competitor and be very happy. The gap isn't what it once was. However in dusk or dawn conditions it is hard to beat S&B.

May 05, 2017, 05:36 PM

E26R-40-BSE

quote:
Originally posted by swage:
Be aware they only have a 2 year warranty. I sold it and bought a Razor Gen 2 and haven't looked back.

They must've gotten many complaints, or seen a decline in orders. They just changed their US warranty to 20 years. Warranty follows the scope.

May 05, 2017, 06:32 PM

swage

quote:
Originally posted by E26R-40-BSE:
quote:
Originally posted by swage:
Be aware they only have a 2 year warranty. I sold it and bought a Razor Gen 2 and haven't looked back.
They must've gotten many complaints, or seen a decline in orders. They just changed their US warranty to 20 years. Warranty follows the scope.

It's a two year warranty. Here's a link to their site.
http://www.schmidtundbender.de...ervice/warranty.html

Here is a list of several popular manufacturer's warranty information. http://precisionrifleblog.com/...e-made-and-warranty/

May 05, 2017, 08:59 PM

E26R-40-BSE

Not anymore, it isn't. Being discussed here, with the actual wording here. Of note: the 20 years is for the US only, and only for non-governmental use.

May 06, 2017, 10:50 PM

swage

That's good to know. Too little, too late in my opinion. Many had a taste of what others had to offer for less and aren't going back. The PMII is old technology. Severe tunneling and limited FOV below 8x. Their reticle choice is average at best. And the MTC models don't hold up as well as the DT models when it comes to tracking.

I'll stick with my Razor Gen II that I can get for 2K with a better reticle.

I'm curious what "limited" means in their warranty description.

May 08, 2017, 10:39 AM

smschulz

Now days there are a plenty of very good optics out there.
In my stable I have NightForce, US Optics, Leupold, Swarovski and S&B.
Of all of them I consider my S&B PMII 5-25 the best Optic I have ever used.
Optic clarity is phenomenal, tracking superb, durable and more.
It boils down to what reticle you prefer.
Love it ~ definitely upper tier scope.

May 08, 2017, 09:07 PM

JoshNC

I would recommend a PMII if you're going with S&B. The 5-20 ultrashort is what I would currently buy. I had a 4-16 PMII. It was awesome. Amazing glass. I sold it to help fund something else that I wanted more. I really miss it.

I looked through a friend's 5-20US and it's my current favorite optic for its compact footprint and low turrets.

My friend also has a Hensoldt 4-16 and 3.5-26. They have the most amazing glass of any optic I've ever seen. The 4-16 is pretty reasonable all things considered. The 3.5-26 is...the opposite of reasonable.

With that said, the NF 4-16 ATAC-R is great glass, short, and pretty light for what it is. It is also considerably less expensive than the S&B and Henny.

May 13, 2017, 07:58 AM

Alpine

I run the S&B PM II 4-16x42 on my LMT's with the Badger Uni-mount. Awesome and rugged scope. 16X is so clear that making 1000-yard shots is childs play.

I too have a 5-20 Ultra Short on my wish list, but for some strange reason, they market the 17-mil per revolution turrets in the USA, but offer 13-mil in the catalog. I would prefer the 13-Mil turrets myself.

May 13, 2017, 11:09 AM

old rugged cross

That is a great rifle. Congrats on it.

My opinion so don't take offense. But i would say it can do either of your task's, but not great at either one. It is a heavy rifle for sure. So lugging around the woods, especially with a heavy scope is not optimal.
While very accurate, not sure I would consider it a precision rifle. Probably fits that category better than a hunting rifle in mho.

I would look for something with a 16x mag, max. And something light weight if I were in your shoes. Good luck.

May 13, 2017, 11:44 AM

drshame

quote:
Originally posted by drshame:

My 16X Leupold Mark IV has been a solid performer on my M14s DMR Clone. Bright, clear, solid and reliable. But it's no lite weight that's for sure. 'Nuff said.

May 14, 2017, 06:29 AM

JoshNC

quote:
Originally posted by old rugged cross:
That is a great rifle. Congrats on it.

My opinion so don't take offense. But i would say it can do either of your task's, but not great at either one. It is a heavy rifle for sure. So lugging around the woods, especially with a heavy scope is not optimal.
While very accurate, not sure I would consider it a precision rifle. Probably fits that category better than a hunting rifle in mho.

I would look for something with a 16x mag, max. And something light weight if I were in your shoes. Good luck.

The 16" lightweight barrel really sheds weight on the mws. It turns it from a pig into a light handling rifle. My personal mws with lightweight barrel was sub-moa (5-round groups) with Black Hills 175gr OTM at 100 yds when I did my part. Surplus hirtenberger 147gr was right around 1moa. A friend's mws shoots the same. He also has the 16" LW barrel.