Talking to a friend today at my LGS, we got into a discussion about AR sights. We both run an optic on top and can co-witness with the BUIS. Both his rifle and mine have Magpul on them.
A person came walking over and started talking about running an optic and having his sights canted 45° and not relying on the flip up sights. He claimed its much better than flipping up the rear sight.
Here's my questions. Is it better to have open sights canted 45° for emergency purposes and not rely on the BUIS that are on the rifle? Anyone running this or has tried it?
I'll admit that I'm used to my EOTech and the sights that are on my Colt.
Thanks in advance.

What kind of optic? If it's an EOTECH or Aimpoint, 1/3 co-witness is probably faster. You can even use the body of an aimpoint an a front iron sight in a pinch. If it's a magnified optic, the offsets might be quicker and you wouldn't have to remove your optic to use your BUIS. I set up a rifle with a low power variable (LPV) and offset magpul pros and I like it, but I haven't used that set up with a timer or really wrung it out on the range.

I'd have asked the person if you could check out his rig.

Offset sights are useful for magnified optics/scopes, which can't cowitness with iron sights. If using a magnified optic, you have to remove the optic to use standard BUIS.

But I see no real benefit with a cowitnessed non-magnified red dot.

I have a set of 45* offset sights on one of my ARs, which has a 3x magnified optic on it. All the rest of my rifles have red dots and standard BUIS.

What are you really going to use it for?

Reality is you probably never uses the "iron" sights, other than occasionally to make sure you actually can. In which case, offset sights (folding or non) won't be any better for you.

I've had non folding offset sights on my optics match rifle for years and love them. Often using them more than the scope. But if you're not switching back and forth they don't serve much purpose.

With a non magnified optic I don't see offer sight being better unless you just don't like looking through the optic. Which I can understand.

The only time offsets with non magnafied optics would be a plus would probably only be in rare hypotheticals. Your optic gets full of mud (yet the irons don't), or it gets damaged in such a way you can't see through it. But honestly, most of our lives thankfully are much more boring than that.

I have 45 degree sights on my 3-gun rifle for quicker transitions from distance to extremely short range.


Only makes a difference of 2-3 seconds but that is enough to let 8-20 people pass you buy on a shorter stage. That is my gamer gun.


I don't have them on my HD AR pistol. I probably should....

Both my friend and I run an EOTech so we can co-witness through them. The other guy who was talking to us, I'm not sure.
As some stated, I could see using them if you run a magnified optic. I've never seen them on a rifle so I was just curious. I have seen them for sale and always wondered.
For those that have them, does canting your rifle make it difficult to shoot or is it basically practice and get used to it?

quote:

Originally posted by IndianaBoy:
I have 45 degree sights on my 3-gun rifle for quicker transitions from distance to extremely short range.

This.

Such sights were developed to prevent your gun form having two different optics and being classified in unlimited/open.

Let me ask you this. If your primary optic shits the bed, are you going to feel more comfortable taking a 200 yard iron-sighted shot with normal irons, or irons that make you hold your rifle at a 45 degree cant?

45 degree sights are not BUIS, they are short-range alternative sighting systems. If that is what you plan to use them for, then add away.

But if you plan to use them to back up your primary optics, we'd better be talking about a very short-barreled rifle because your potential is going to be very limited by the obligate positioning of those sights.

quote:

Originally posted by LDD:

quote:

Originally posted by IndianaBoy:
I have 45 degree sights on my 3-gun rifle for quicker transitions from distance to extremely short range.

This.

Such sights were developed to prevent your gun form having two different optics and being classified in unlimited/open.

Let me ask you this. If your primary optic shits the bed, are you going to feel more comfortable taking a 200 yard iron-sighted shot with normal irons, or irons that make you hold your rifle at a 45 degree cant?

45 degree sights are not BUIS, they are short-range alternative sighting systems. If that is what you plan to use them for, then add away.

But if you plan to use them to back up your primary optics, we'd better be talking about a very short-barreled rifle because your potential is going to be very limited by the obligate positioning of those sights.

Because I don’t have experience in such matters, why are they not back ups? Are typical 45 degree sights not sighted in in a similar fashion to traditional irons?

quote:

Originally posted by JJexp:

quote:

Originally posted by LDD:

quote:

Originally posted by IndianaBoy:
I have 45 degree sights on my 3-gun rifle for quicker transitions from distance to extremely short range.

This.

Such sights were developed to prevent your gun form having two different optics and being classified in unlimited/open.

Let me ask you this. If your primary optic shits the bed, are you going to feel more comfortable taking a 200 yard iron-sighted shot with normal irons, or irons that make you hold your rifle at a 45 degree cant?

45 degree sights are not BUIS, they are short-range alternative sighting systems. If that is what you plan to use them for, then add away.

But if you plan to use them to back up your primary optics, we'd better be talking about a very short-barreled rifle because your potential is going to be very limited by the obligate positioning of those sights.

Because I don’t have experience in such matters, why are they not back ups? Are typical 45 degree sights not sighted in in a similar fashion to traditional irons?

BUIS are intended for use throughout the range of the rifle.

45 degree sights are obligatory close-range because of the way you have to hold your rifle to use them.

Nobody shoots high-power canting their rifle 45 degrees, there is an anatomical reason for that.

Therefore, if your optic goes down, and all you have are 45 degree sights, you've just severely limited the sighting and accuracy potential of your rifle.

Very good information and I knew I could get an informative answer here.
I'm still intrigued and may put a set on my AR.

quote:

Originally posted by joatmonv:
I'm still intrigued and may put a set on my AR.

First of all, I don't have the 45 degree sights on any of my rifles. Not really the way I set up my ARs, but I get why they are installed. I agree with others here that the 45 degree sights make sense on low-to-mid power variable optics, but not so much for red-dot-type sights with irons already co-witnessed.

I've seen competitors in 2-gun matches (precision rifle and tactical carbine) who shoot really well on close targets with the 45 degree sights. The guys are really fast in the transition and quite accurate on targets.

I briefly tried one of their rifles set up with LPV and 45 degree sights. My thoughts:
- I place the buttstock on my ARs in the middle of my clavicle. Transitioning to 45 degrees, this places the buttstock much lower on my clavicle, with the toe of the stock near my armpit. And I hold my right elbow (RH shooter) higher than I normally do. This all feels different, but not bad.

- With the 45 degree rifle cant, I no longer have my normal cheek weld on the stock. More like a jaw line weld. IMO this may be the biggest issue for accurate shooting -- obtaining a consistent cheek/jaw/chin weld so your eye naturally goes to the proper location of the 45 degree sights.

- The 45 degree cant probably is easiest to do while shooting off hand. Shooting from a supported barrier isn't too bad, especially from a soft surface -- like a sand bag. Prone wasn't quite as easy for me. Prone off decent sand bags would likely be OK.

- With a consistent jaw weld and properly zero'd sights, I had no issues hitting relatively small steel from 25 to 100 yards off sand bags. Had steel targets been available further out, I feel I could have hit them, too.

- I think the most important thing about 45 degree sights is that the shooter must consistently train with them in order for them to be useful. Otherwise, they likely would be another AR doo-dad that adds weight but little utility.

Personally... I really don't notice any difference in how the rifle feels shooting the offset sights. Other than my hand slightly turned, it's the same. To me at least, it's a non issue. I've used them out past 200 yards with no issues.

Great information Fritz and Cas. Nice photo also.
Not sure what I'm going to do. I'm running an EOTech and the Magpul sights work fine. Perfect co-witness but I can see and advantage with the off set sights if the optic takes a shit. It may only be a few seconds but having to just cant the rifle rather than flip the rear sight up could be a life saver.