quote:

Originally posted by pepsiblue:
My bedside gun has an Aimpoint only. Everything else has a magnifier. After a recent training class, my next venture is a LPVO. Most likely a Nightforce 1x8.

Why are you choosing Nightforce over everything else?

I can get a great price on one and I want to try it. It seems to be a solid build. Vortex is a fine option. There are a ton of great options.

LVPO in your price range I can recommend is the Delta Stryker 1-6x24. It is daylight bright. I’ve had mine ~ 6 months, so can’t really speak to long-term durability

Delta is Polish, and the scope is made in Japan by LOW.

https://www.edgunwest.com/stor...tics-stryker-1-6x24/

When I was policing I carried an AR15 and we trained and qualified at 100yds and in, as most places in the urban area wouldn’t be over that. But we were all allowed to shoot from 260 yds as that was as far back as we could go-that distance just wasn’t what was on the qualification. Policy said NO optics for patrol officers. SWAT guys were different. They had ACOGs and the sniper had a 10x scope on a rem700 in 308.

In the service we used iron sights. Now that I’m retired from both policing & the CG, the CG has adopted the M4 and they use the ACOG.

My home defense is a shotgun here due to my neighborhood. When I lived in NC I used the AR with irons. I put a tritium front sight, light and sling.

I believe in the KISS theorem. And I know that Mr. Murphy is always around. For example. The CG went from Remington 870 riot shotguns with 18” barrels to 14” shotguns (better use aboard ship) And the powers that be put ACOGs on them. And after firing a few rounds of slugs the sights were no longer on target. Wrong sight for the heavy recoil of slugs.

So in my experience, with my training, I’m not spending $1000 on a ACOG. I might put a c-more or T1 on my AR. If commies float down from the skies I would use a deer rifle to snipe them not an AR.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by GrumpyBiker:
For use at real life distances you can defend in court… Aimpoint T-1 gets my vote.

I hear people say this constantly. In the same vein, they claim to want to intervene in active shooter situations. Does anyone think in any of the last few media covered active shooters that a citizen would have burned at the stake for stopping the gunman on a rooftop or across a parking lot at 150 yards? He/she would be a televised hero in most places for ending the killing.



No, I would not take that shot nor would I intervene in a situation at that distance in a civilian setting.

quote:

Originally posted by KSGM:
Where the red dot magnifiers are concerned, in my experience, I'd rather have a high-end (Aimpoint or Eotech) optic, without a magnifier, than a lesser quality combo unit. Even with the nice optics, when you stack all that glass up, you make sacrifices in clarity, and the FOV isn't great. I'd rather have the ability, than not, but I'd choose to prioritize a nice red dot or holo out of the gate, and then come back for a quality magnifier, when I can afford it.

I'm a big EoTech fan personally and just replaced a 1x prism on one of the ARs with a EoTech.
2 ARs now wear EoTechs and 1 has a 3x prism sight on it that I like but not love.
I have never tried an LPVO even though I've looked online at them. Most if not all are more than an EoTech. Not knocking them as I have no experience.

Genuine issue Aimpoint CCO. They are tough, I've seen them bashed, tossed around, carried in the field, wet, you name it; still works. Good field of view, non-paralax. Seen plenty of Soldiers, not gun guys, who shoot only once maybe twice a year, basically no practice they can zero in less than 20 rounds, then one and done on the M4 qual.

I was lucky enough to have the same rifle and CCO for like 5 years in a row. Once dialed in, on the zero range I adjusted it MAYBE one or two clicks each year.

The one I have now is pretty beat, last time I really zeroed it was back in Virginia ~August '21. fast forward 6 months, thousands of miles, other side of the equator and I can still easily hit 50-100m silhouettes, stone cold on the fast transition range.

Yeah, I'd like a $1,200 ACOG, but not gonna happen

AimPoint for when things go bad. I bought a COmpM2 AKA the M68 CCO that was issued to the military at the beginning of the GWOT. Only gripe is the advertised 10 year battery life only lasted 9.5 years. And if that can be even considered a gripe. I know the technology has evolved a lot, but AimPoint has always been a solid optic.

Another vote for the ACOGs too. I use one on my M16A4 clone. From day one it felt that optic was made for that rifle.

Hard to argue with an Aimpoint PRO.

While I am now recently retired. As an LEO, I had a TA31 on top and an EOTECH on a cant mount. This system gave me the best of both worlds. The Magnification when I need it and fast response in CQB. One shooting in particular, low light, couldn't find the active shooter in an apartment complex. The magnification on the ACOG helped me find the bad guy among all the people running and hiding for cover in the complex. The Eotech alone was not much help. Two rounds at 48 yards DRT. The investigation after the fact, recommended magnification for everyone (That was a system I paid for). That never did happen, but in that instance it was a game changer.

Sorry I missed the $1000 budget.

Vortex Razor 1-6x

If I had to stay at/below $1k, I would choose an Aimpoint T2 in Arisaka Defense mount.

If you want a good lpvo at that price point, the Vortex Razor HDIIe is very good, though heavy.

And an ACOG is a solid contender too.

Personally, I would recommend saving a bit longer and not being constrained by that price point. For a 16” general purpose rifle, I would choose a capped NF NX8 with fc-dmx reticle.

quote:

Originally posted by usncorpsman:
Give the Primary Arms Micro Prism 3x a try. It is 95% of the ACOG at about 1/3 the price. ”.

I just got one and I'm loving it so far. I hot the 5.56 version, and after messing around with it, I may be getting one for my .300aac blackout.

Another contender would be Primary Arms 1-6X. I also have one and it is also very good.


ARman

My eyes kinda suck, and if I were to only have one rifle I’d put a Leupold VX-5 on it.

quote:

Originally posted by pepsiblue:
Let’s say you could only have one rifle...

Well, you have at least two rifles, making the premise more challenging.

I like 18-20" barreled ARs, with great glass of respectable magnification, say 3-15x to 4-20x. Rifles that can hang with bolt actions, if the shooter has the capabilities. Targets at 600+ yards are in play. But not very many are in this camp.

Many moons ago at a Grayguns course, jljones was my carbine instructor. I just purchased my first AR15 -- a 16" Wilson with a Leupold Mark 4 1.5-5x. During the course I also shot jljones' carbine -- IIRC a Sig with a red dot. From the beginning, I determined LPVOs work better than red dots for me. I recommend listening to Mr. Jones' thoughts. After the Grayguns course, I had maybe 500 rounds of AR under my belt. Now 25,000+ AR15 rounds later, the shooting principles he presented remain part of my fundamentals.

I have the following optics on short-ish ARs:
- Vortex Viper 1-4x on an 8" barrel AR9. See the Sigforum Postal Match thread for results over the past few months. This is my cheapest scope, and it works just fine. 3 to 200 yards, timed targets from high ready, slung positions.
- Nightforce NX8 1-8x on an 11" 300 blackout. The upper initially wore the old Leupold Mark 4 1.5-5x scope; it now uses the NX8. After some attempts to find the best ammo, this rifle shoots MOA with supersonic ammo from up close to 450 yards.
- NF 2.5-10x32 on a 14.5" LWRC. This isn't NF's best scope and the LWRC's accuracy is so-so.
- NF 2.5-10x42 on a 14.5" Wilson. Now we're talking -- quality scope on a kickass upper. Up close to 450 yards, absolutely sub-MOA. I feel the reticle lines could be thicker.
- Vortex Viper PST II 2-10x on the 16" Wilson. This is the rifle I took to the Grayguns course. Now with upgraded optics, a better rail, and barrel #2. Up close to 500 yards, absolutely sub-MOA. Absolutely solid setup.
- NF NXS F1 3.5-15x on a different 16" Wilson. My favorite carbine competition rifle, up close to 600 yards, can do 1/2 to 3/4 MOA. It's too bad that the minimum parallax on this scope is around 50 yards. Otherwise, absolutely amazing.

I absolutely prefer variable power optics on ARs. My performance (time splits and accuracy) hasn't really suffered on short-distance targets, and the magnification provides huge benefits as distances increase.

I really don't see me with only one AR15. Ever. If it did occur and if $1k was all that I could put into a scope, most likely my Vortex Viper PST II 2-10x would be the ticket.

There has been a 2-rifle match in my region for a number of years. The carbine portion has 10 targets per stage, with distances of 3 to 400+ yards. 5 of the 10 targets per stage are generally less than 15 yards away. Most of the close targets are reduced size paper IPSC, requiring 2 hits in the A zone of about 1.5" wide and 2.5" tall. One needs to engage all 10 carbine targets in 2 to 2.5 minutes without misses to perform well in the match. The guy who has the most wins of this match uses a Vortex Viper PST II 2-10x. His capabilities with this scope is a primary reason I bought one.

Competition, scored results, and stop watch or shot timer will tell volumes of which optics work best in which situations.

As always, fritz has a wealth of knowledge to share. Thank you!!

When I did a two gun match a few years ago, the MRO red dot on the AR carbine did fine until the final long(er) stage.

The diabolical stage designer put a black painted 12" steel disk on a black painted post against a black earth berm ~ 150 yards distant.

Couldn't even see it from the firing line.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeinNC:
If commies float down from the skies I would use a deer rifle to snipe them not an AR.

WOLVERINES!

Thanx fritz..

I've been sharing a scope between rifles and that's a PITA in the end.
Zeroing the scope every time and burning up good ammo doing so.
Dedicated scope to the rifle is more expensive in the end but you don't have to fiddle with it.

I've been looking for something else besides the Arken 4-16 and haven't been finding what I'm looking for in stock and with a reticle I like to go on the 18" Wilson.
Almost went with another LPVO but took a peek at the NF 2.5-10x42 with the MOAR reticle fritz mentioned and that looks like a winner.
Picked up a NF mount as well, in for a penny and all that.

My 14.7" has a 1-8x24 PA scope. Works for me and what I consider a do all optic.

Dang, that old $1k budget limitation. Oh well, whatever you get my vote would be for a LPVO. I'm partial to Vortex.

quote:

Originally posted by powermad:
Almost went with another LPVO but took a peek at the NF 2.5-10x42 with the MOAR reticle fritz mentioned and that looks like a winner.
Picked up a NF mount as well, in for a penny and all that.

If you haven't purchased the scope, let me share some thoughts about the NF 2.5-10x and the Vortex 2-10x.

The NF is SFP, the Vortex is FFP.

The NF glass is slightly clearer, but it has the slight blue tint that occurs with the NXS line. The Vortex glass is brighter. Both scopes have very nice glass.

NF reticle is good if the target background is light colored and doesn't have dark lines or features. The Vortex reticle is FFP, so the reticle lines are a bit too skinny at low power, but they have a nice thickness at 8-10 power. At full power the Vortex works better against complex backgrounds.

The NF reticle has subtentions marked at 10 and 20. The Vortex reticle has subtentions marked at 8 and 16. There are merits to both, there are issues with both.

Turret feel is a little better with the NF -- crisp and distinct clicks.

The zero stop is more repeatable with the NF. Turn the turrets to maximum elevation, bump up hard against the top end, and zero is solid as ever. Bump up hard against the top end of the Vortex's elevation, and the zero changes slightly in elevation. Not a deal breaker, but it's something to understand. There's enough elevation adjustment in the Vortex scope to exceed a 223's effective ballistics -- I vaguely recall that I could dial beyond 1,000 yards without bumping up against the top.

If you can, look through both scopes prior to making your decision.

The NF one-piece mount is really, really good. Among the best I've seen.

I was looking at the PA Glx 2.5-10 but the reticle kills it for me everytime I look at one.
Kinda looked at the PST but wasn't interested in it too much.
I was holding out for a March 1-8 shorty with the reticle I wanted but it's been on backorder for a bit.
The NF was in stock and had what I'm looking for.
The SFP sealed it for me as I find it more useful at lower magnification.
I have a hard time with FFP on lower magnification, the reticle seems more of a suggestion as an aiming point.

Euro optic isn't kidding with one day shipping, ordered yesterday and it'll be here today.