Several years ago, I looked at an old 11-87 at the local shop. I knew zip about semi-auto shotguns at the time.

The shop owner told me what he knew of the gun (it was on consignment) and said it probably needed a new seal. I admitted I didn't know how to do that job, so he broke down the gun and replaced the seal right then and there. So I bought it. The seal was in a 3-pack, so I happily bought the pack.

A few weekends ago, The Lovely Girlfriend handed me an older 1100 to check out. I still don't know a ton about these guns aside from how to dirty them and how to clean them. My first thought was, "this is going to need a new seal, just like my 11-87 did."

A trip to the range seemed to confirm the suspicion, as this 1100 won't throw out its empties. "No sweat," I thought, "I still have two seals at home."

I did enough research to find out that the 1100 seal and the 11-87 seal are the same, so I figured I was all set. This 3-pack package even says, "For use with 12/16 Gauge Models, 1100 & 11-87."

When I took apart the 1100, though, what I know as the seal (heck, maybe I've been referring to the wrong thing all along!) appeared to be very rigid, especially compared with the new one (which is soft like an O-ring). I figured it was just really cruddy after years of use. So I removed it, replaced it with the new one, and went on about the day.

As I tinkered with the original part this evening, I've found that the ring I replaced IS actually metal. It's not a complete "O" however -- it's a "broken O," I suppose. You can't see the break, but if you pull on it a little the break becomes obvious.

For reference, the part I'm referring to is #12 on this huge diagram.

Here's a link to the pack I have, confirmed by matching UPC number.

So. Did rubber seals supersede metal ones? Do I simply have the wrong part? Have I screwed up badly in my misunderstanding (ignorance)?

Thanks, all. I do appreciate the knowledge found here.

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ETA: Is it possible to determine this gun's approximate age by its serial number?

quote:

So. Did rubber seals supersede metal ones? Do I simply have the wrong part? Have I screwed up badly in my misunderstanding (ignorance)?

Two different parts.

On 1100s and 11-87s, there's both a split metal ring (piston seal) and a rubber O-ring (barrel seal).

As well as a third split metal ring (piston) that is either separate (old style) or combined with the piston seal into one snap-together assembly (new style).

So you'll want to put that metal ring back. You can find Youtube videos to help guide you to put the correct parts back in the correct spot and order.

quote:

Is it possible to determine this gun's approximate age by its serial number?

If the 1100 has the original barrel, the barrel will be marked on the left side just in front of the receiver with the month and date of manufacture, using a two letter code:

Month Codes (first letter):

B - L - A - C - K - P - O - W - D - E - R - X
1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - 9 - 10 - 11 - 12

Year:______Code (second letter):

1963_______ K
1964_______ L
1965_______ M
1966_______ N
1967_______ P
1968_______ R
1969_______ S

1970_______ T
1971_______ U
1972_______ W
1973_______ X
1974_______ Y
1975_______ Z
1976_______ I
1977_______ O
1978_______ Q
1979_______ V

1980_______ A
1981_______ B
1982_______ C
1983_______ D
1984_______ E
1985_______ F
1986_______ G
1987_______ H
1988_______ I
1989_______ J

1990_______ K
1991_______ L
1992_______ M
1993_______ N
1994_______ O
1995_______ P
1996_______ Q
1997_______ R
1998_______ S
1999_______ T
2000_______ U
2001_______ W
2002_______ X

But if it doesn't have the original barrel, then the best you can do is to get a rough approximation based on the serial number prefix on the receiver.

1963-1968: No prefix
1968-1974: L
1974-1978: M
1978-1985: N
1985-1990: P
1990+: R

You used to be able to call Remington customer service and have them look up the serial number to find a date of manufacture, but I don't believe the new company that purchased the Remington Arms name after their bankruptcy has access to the old company's production records or offers that service.

Thank you, Rogue.

You know, "Captain O-Ring Barrel Seal" sounds like a really weird superhero.

In your first pic, the "skinny" ring is the one I'm questioning. The two larger metal pieces are still in there.

I've been hitting the 'Tube this evening, including a couple of videos from Brownells. I'm pretty sure I've got all the pieces in there correctly, it's just odd to me that the original O-ring was metal.

Thank you, too, for the marking codes. I'm almost certain the barrel is original; I'll check it out in the morning.

quote:

In your first pic, the "skinny" ring is the one I'm questioning. The two larger metal pieces are still in there.

You sure? Because in that photo, the skinny one in the middle is the rubber O-ring barrel seal.


Edit: I learned something today. It appears that very early 1100s did, in fact, have a split metal barrel seal, but it was changed to the familiar rubber O-ring quite early in production. Reportedly 1964/1965, so just a year or two after introduction.

So if your 1100 is from one of the first couple years of production, that would explain what you found. If so, replacing it with a rubber O-ring is fine.

Haha, my curiosity wouldn't let me wait 'til morning.

I see four characters stamped into the barrel, on the left side, just ahead of the receiver: looks like NRK8. And that doesn't make sense if the date codes are two-character.

If I take the R and the K from the middle, then I can make November 1963 out of it. The next K is 1990, and this gun is way older than that.





(Postimages is working right now... let's see if it holds.)

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
So if your 1100 is from one of the first couple years of production, that would explain what you found. If so, replacing it with a rubber O-ring is fine.

Great news! Thank you again.

Yes, RK for November 1963. First year of production, which explains the unexpected metal barrel seal.

Before the date code is an inspection stamp, and after is an assembly code.


Yours was never sent for factory repair, so doesn't have the first four repair markings shown below, just the latter four. Inspection marks varied.

Thank you again, Rogue.

You mentioned a factory repair. Is that to say that there's a repair that should have been done, or more like, "If it had been to the factory for repair, it would have these additional marks"?

A first-year 1100! That's pretty darned cool, I think.

The latter.

Great info and nice shotgun. I was going to dig to the back of my safe to pull out my 11-87. I just did the o-ring seal a few months ago when we pulled out the 11-87 and woke it from its 30 year slumber. Glad you got the info you needed.

This place is a wealth of information.

I'll print and keep that date code chart -- I'm curious now how old my 11-87 is.

Next, I want to learn the differences between 1100 and 11-87. After that, I'll light up some questions on a Syracuse Arms double-barrel I got to look at recently.

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ETA: My old 11-87 isn't that old, comparatively. It's got a KJ date code (and no extra marks), so May of 1989.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: vthoky,

I learned something new as well, as I had never heard of the metal o-ring. But now my question is why was the gun not functioning properly? I’m assuming the metal o-ring didn’t dry out, crack, and need replacing.

My guess -- and it's a guess, at best -- is that the crack in the metal ring causes a bit of a leak in that expected seal, so the gases go somewhere they're not supposed to.

After a shot, the bolt retreats and stays open, but the empty hull doesn't get removed entirely.

And now that I've typed that, I wonder if the problem is not necessarily a seal problem (though the metal one IS for sure broken), but an extractor issue. More learning to do!

I'll try to get a good pic of that original seal tonight.

The biggest difference in the function of the 11-87 from the 1100 is that the 11-87 has a self-compensating gas system that allows you shoot both low-brass 2 3/4" and 3" magnum shells.

I must also say the barrel date codes on 1100's can be a little crazy. Nice that yours seems to follow the standard markings. I have a 16 ga 1100 that was my Dad's that he bought in about 1970, when he was 16yo. He said he went up to the store to get it and the guy brought out a plain barrel gun. My Dad told him he wanted a vent rib so he just went in the back and brought out a VR barrel. The receiver has an L-prefix in the Serial, dating it to '68-73, which tracks with the story. The barrel code, however, is CF, which would be a 1985 date. Doesn't make sense to me unless he swapped the barrel at a much later date than I understood. But I don't think that was the case.

Anyways, if your bolt retracts and stays open then I don't think you have a gas problem. I mean, it's still possible, but an extractor problem seems more likely. On the above-mentioned gun, we were having a problem with extraction (stovepipes) and a gunsmith noticed that there is a little "ear" on the left side of the inside of the receiver that kicks the shell out to the right. The extractor pulls the shell rearward and it hits that little ear to kick it out. That bump had been worn down over the years and through thousands of shots. I think the 'smith welded some steel on to it and then filed it down to get it running again. It is not 100% but it is much better and even Remington had not been able to fix the problem previously.

quote:

Originally posted by YellowJacket:
The receiver has an L-prefix in the Serial, dating it to '68-73, which tracks with the story. The barrel code, however, is CF, which would be a 1985 date. Doesn't make sense to me unless he swapped the barrel at a much later date than I understood. But I don't think that was the case.

Perhaps that "F" is a lightly struck/partially mis-struck "P"? Stuff like that where the edge of a stamped marking is sometimes missing/cut off is fairly common on older guns.

That would date the barrel to 1967 production, which would make more sense with your dad's timeline.

possible but doesn't really look like it.

quote:

Originally posted by YellowJacket:
Anyways, if your bolt retracts and stays open then I don't think you have a gas problem. I mean, it's still possible, but an extractor problem seems more likely.

Thank you, YellowJacket, for the pic and explanation. I like that charging handle, by the way.

I see the "ear" you're talking about. A quick surf to Numrich says I can get a replacement (PN 145850) for 13 bucks. I see it at Poppert's Gun Parts for $10, though the pic isn't great and doesn't really look the same as the part at Numrich. Looks like it's a press-in/press-out thing... nothing I can't tackle.

Our local really good gunsmith passed away a couple of years ago. I've got to get to work on finding a new 'smith around here.

ETA: Looking a bit more, I also see a PN 821170 at Numrich.

quote:

Originally posted by vthoky:
I like that charging handle, by the way.

Made by Choate. Same one I have on my 11-87. Easy swap: Just yank out the old one to the side (it's held in by a detent) and then insert the new one until it clicks.

https://www.riflestock.com/sto...lt-handle-1100-1187/

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
Easy swap: Just yank out the old one to the side (it's held in by a detent) and then insert the new one until it clicks.

Thank you!
I learned last fall how easy it is to replace one when somehow I lost my original. (Still haven't found it.) I was pretty surprised to find it just clicks into place!

Pics of the old and new O-rings, new looks silver, old is dark:



I have to force it just a little, but here's the split in the original ring:


Following YellowJacket's post, I'm wondering now if I should put that original o-ring back in place... it seems the ejector is the more likely root of the problem.

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Still marveling at how cool it is to have shot clays with a 62-year-old gun.