Thanks for all the info.

I think I need to as some more questions of the hunt companies before making a rifle decision.

newmexican - ordered the book from Amazon.

If it were my hunt, I'd drag the stainless Henry .45-70 out of the safe. For the size of the animal vs the distances you're likely shooting, it's the best thing going. Plus it's a Henry, plus it's a lever gun for a bison hunt, plus it will feel "old school traditional" without going all the way back to the Sharps rifles, which would be tempting too..If I had one...

Best of luck on the hunt!

Gentlemen- This is a 265g FTX from a 444 Marlin. Through shoulder of a 190 pound Ohio deer and lodged under skin on other side. Not a bison, for sure, but bullet held up well and deer dropped in 10 yards. I won't post the exit hole on a doe from the FTX in 250g 450 Bushmaster...

If the buffalo are anything like the ones I saw out west last summer, your max shot should be around 50 yards. Know your terrain and get recommendations from the guide if you are using one. Any caliber capable of poking holes through stout meat and bone will do.

If it wouldn't go through a sub 200lb deer, I wouldn't shoot a 1500b bison with it.



I have a beautiful Shiloh Sharps in .50-90 that I'll sell you for less than I paid! I mean, not a lot less.

quote:

Originally posted by cas:
If it wouldn't go through a sub 200lb deer, I wouldn't shoot a 1500b bison with it.

+1 !

Go heavy for caliber with stout construction.

I was looking at other stuff and chanced upon the 45-70 AR. I have imbibed more than a few beers so you'll need to do the follow up if interested. Good luck on your hunt.

https://www.range365.com/an-ar...cartridges-never-die

quote:

Originally posted by mr kablammo:
I was looking at other stuff and chanced upon the 45-70 AR. I have imbibed more than a few beers so you'll need to do the follow up if interested. Good luck on your hunt.

https://www.range365.com/an-ar...cartridges-never-die

The biggest thing that would keep me from considering one would the fact that you would need their proprietary brass. Also, I suspect the loads would have to fall into a specific pressure range for reliable cycling. One of the beauties of the cartridge is it’s wide range of usefulness- it can be loaded from mild for small game to a truly world class large and dangerous game killer.

quote:

Originally posted by cas:
If it wouldn't go through a sub 200lb deer, I wouldn't shoot a 1500b bison with it.

That was my immediate thought.

So why are we limiting the action choices to repeaters? Sure, you can find a bunch of the rifles in 1886 Winchester and repros. I've even got one way to fancy from the 100 year centennial for Montana. I think that was a while back. If'n I were thinking about it, I'd consider using one of my nasty old Browning 1878 single shot. Just for fun I put a base and a scope on it. Then found and bought a 1-4 variable. In all honesty 1x isn't really enough because it looks smaller than 1x with plain eyesight. But putting the power dial up to 2x changes the whole thing.

Different folks have their accuracy standard. I look around for some Miller Lite cans and use the shield on the front as my bullseye. That nasty old rifle can shoot until my shoulder hurts, putting every shot on the can and most of them in the shield. You won't be hitting that buff in the tail unless you aim at it.

The "know it all" history in the link above leaves out the 300 grain loading. If'n I were shooting at Bambi, it'd be my first choice. You don't reap any advantage in recoil, but it seems a good loading and it won't penetrate the entire Buick parked down by the river we used to call a target.

I've had a Springfield since the 1960s. Looked for a suitable replacement. Then about 1990 a buddy and I spotted the 1878 Browning at a gun show. Because I retired the Springfield due to its age and me being addle brained, I needed some fodder. At that same gunshow we found a pile of ammo. The seller was a gunshop and he had convinced himself he was never going to sell the stuff he had. Beggars can't be choosers and it was 405 grain. He said I could have it for $3 a box, or $2.50 if I took it all. So I still had plenty of money left over and bought it all.

The buddy offered to carry my new rifle so I could hump the 100# of ammo. Nice guy (I got even with him by introducing him to his wife). So I was suffering under the weight. We went back to his car and dumped it all in the trunk. Went back inside the show and kept looking. Not for anything in particular and stumbled on another stack of ammo. This was 300 grain. When the guy manning the table saw I was interested (and probably a sucker to boot) he asked what I'd give for it all. My buddy laughed and told him we'd just bought out the table a few aisles over at $2.50 a box. He offered the same deal and I bought all of that.

I was feeling a bit peeked and told the guy I barely had lunch money. My friend spoke up and offered to by my lunch. But the guy at the table felt sorry for me and gave me $5 back. To eat on! Nice guys are everywhere. Yes, I still have most of that ammo preferring to shoot handloads.

One of the bullet companies was selling a bullet with the title "Grand Slam". Just for fun I bought a box of it. They're 500 grain solids with a tungsten core. A true armor penetrating type of bullet. That's been 25 years at least and I haven't bothered to load them. Yet. A maximum charge will get you up near 458 velocity and recoil. I'm guessing you could shoot clear through a tiny American Buffalo with that loading. Just don't know why you'd want to.

Just to be clear, the 45-70 was used for years at the Camp Perry matches. That was 1,000 yards. Sure the guys shooting it knew the drop on the bullets. Not something a modern man can master...

Shooting the 45-70 at long distances is fun, and sometimes when the light is right you can see the bullet as it does its rainbow thing. Or as it hops skips and jumps across a plowed field. Down in the dungeon I have a cigar box I was given full of hand cast 45 caliber lead. Its a heavy cigar box. All greasy and messy with bullet lube.

I agree with the idea of asking what kind of hunt it will be. Then practice a bit at those distances.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:

quote:

Originally posted by FN in MT:
What type of hunt? Reservation? Private land?

Buffalo hunts can run the gamut from tough, long range shots on skittish bulls...to lay the gun over a fence and shoot them in a corral.

Exactly. I talked to a guy who stated his "hunt" was essentially having the guide drive them up to a herd, in a fenced pasture, and choosing which animal fit the bill. Buying a traditional gun for such a hunt is a bit odd.

Consider your future possibilities for this rifle -- type of game, distance to game, ammo, recoil. IMO there are better options than 45-70 for most game. A bolt action will be more accurate than a lever action, and will allow more optics options. There are calibers that will essentially do what the .45-70 will do with less recoil -- 338 Federal and 35 Whelen are a couple of options.

While growing up in North Dakota, we raised buffalo. Hard to imagine hunting them would be anything other than a let down. However maybe someone has figured out how to make it sporting. A couple things to keep in mind and I am sure that you wont be put in a situation where you could be hurt, but just so you know. Buff Bulls are mean and aggressive, and are incredibly fast. Hard to believe as big as they are, but they have a sprint speed that would rival an Olympic sprinter. If your close to them, never turn your back on them. If you see their tail go up in the air, they are pissed and someone is about to get their ass kicked. The meat is the best part and there will be a lot of it. The hide and mount are valuable. I agree, I would buy a rifle that you can get some additional use out of, unless you want to hang it on the wall with the mount. We used to shoot them behind the head with a 7mm.

How about going for an affordable replica? I saw an IAB replica at the Verdi, NV Cabelas that would seem to fit the bill. IABs aren't collectable, but they are very capable as a shooter. As a result, you can get an authentic feeling 19th century period rifle without the high cost.







One of the reasons these aren't collectable is because they have that stupid lawyer added safety on the block. If this were my rifle, that safety would be gone in two seconds. But this would give you a big hammer to pull back while sighting in a buff.

I spoke with Brett in the gun library, and he said they'd take $700, so I know they'll budge at least that far. You could have it shipped to the NC store for $25. Just a thought in case you didn't want to go with a lever gun or an expensive High Wall. This isn't an authentic US Sharps rifle, but it is about $3000 cheaper.

quote:

Originally posted by rburg:
Just to be clear, the 45-70 was used for years at the Camp Perry matches. That was 1,000 yards. Sure the guys shooting it knew the drop on the bullets. Not something a modern man can master...

Bullshit! http://www.longrangebpcr.com/ I only competed to 500 meters but my buddies recently competed in BPCR matches to 1000yds. It's a matter of having the right vernier site and being able to read mirage.......