quote:

Originally posted by kilyung:
Apparently my attempt at levity was a fail. I will shut up now.

Now that you point it out, I suppose I should have recognized it as a joke, but most such comments are made in dead seriousness.

About 40 years ago, after shooting lots of ammo through my 1975 Colt SP1 (no forward assist), I'd experience an occasional failure to completely chamber a round. Holding the fore end with my left hand, I would rap the butt with my right hand, the round would chamber and the bolt would lock into place. When I had to do this I knew the rifle needed cleaning. I loved that rifle and still have it, but when AR 15's with a forward assist came on the market, I didn't wait long to obtain one.

Yes, because SPORTS and hot guns.

quote:

Originally posted by Scurvy:
I have yet to see a story of someone using it under any type of normal/reasonable circumstances.

Well here ya go. Story #1.

I attended Graygun’s first pistol/carbine training course in Oregon. Sigforum’s jljones was our carbine instructor, although it’s been enough years that he likely doesn’t recall the course.

The weather wasn’t pleasant on carbine day. Over 90 degrees, very windy, and the fine volcanic-ash-based soil in the area was blowing into just about everything. Two sheriffs had their duty carbines go down in the morning – wouldn’t cycle worth a crap. One was a Rock River, the other was a parts kit. Over lunch they scrubbed the carbines and re-lubed. The RRA functioned OK after lunch, the parts kit carbine went tits up near the end of the day. I know the RRA guy was using the forward assist on almost every mag change.

This was my first real test of a new 16” Wilson Combat carbine. At that time I used Rem Oil as a lube. I shot the Brown Bear FMJ ammo I bought from Grayguns. Late in the day, my carbine began having issues loading the first round after a mag change, as did many other students in the course. At the next reloading break, Jerry Jones had all of us use the FA after reloads. This pretty much stopped any issues with chambering rounds for the whole class.

Story #2

A few years ago I attended Rifles Only’s Helicopter Assault Course in Texas. The first day was a very high volume ground-based training day. We students shot many hundreds of rounds. I shot my Wilson 16” carbine, unsuppressed, without issues, this time using Slip 2000 lube. Most of the other students shot their carbines with cans. One guy shot a 12” (-ish) suppressed Noveske, with Black Hills match ammo, with not so good lube – possibly Hoppes. His gun did not cycle well on the ground day, and he was using the FA pretty often to get it into battery after mag changes. We got him to clean the Noveske at lunch, then use our Slip 2000. I recall he only needed the FA once in the afternoon.

Jacob Bynum, the owner of Rifles Only, may recall this. But I suspect he more clearly remembers the contractor whose SBR had failures with both the trigger and gas block. The contractor did everything possible to keep the gun running that day – including an occasional use of FA.

Story #3

Two years ago I competed in the Competition Dynamics Team Match in Wyoming. I was the primary carbine guy, shooting an unsuppressed Wilson Combat 18” AR-15, with Hornady factory 75 grain HPBT ammo. We shot precision field courses in the morning, with tactical assault stages in the afternoon. The second day was hot, windy, and dusty. In one of the assault stages when my gun was quite hot, a round didn’t fully go into battery upon a mag change. I hit the FA quickly and moved on.

Alpine was my precision rifle partner on this match. I don’t believe I told him of the issue, nor did it affect that stage.

Story #4

This fall I competed in the Team Safari match in New Mexico. I was the AR guy, shooting Hornady factory 73 ELD-M ammo in a suppressed 20” SI Defense rifle. On the first day, I had two different stages where maybe 5 rounds into a 20-round mag the gun didn’t cycle properly. I fixed one with the FA and the other with charging another round.

On the second day I had two separate jams – the rifle tried to feed two rounds at once into the chamber. These jams were cleared by dropping the mag and pulling out the rounds with my fingers. Of course, FA wouldn’t help here. Ultimately I determined the 20 round Gen 2 Magpul magazine was bad, and I threw it away. I had no cycling issues on the third day with different mags.

Offgrid was the precision rifle guy on this match, and he will easily recall my cycling issues.

quote:

Originally posted by Scurvy:
I have yet to see a story of someone using it under any type of normal/reasonable circumstances.

Maybe I don’t shoot in “normal/reasonable circumstances”. Maybe I should stop training, stop competing, and stop pushing the boundaries of my marksmanship limits. Maybe I should sign up for only shooting at a square range, where I could back a Prius up to the concrete bench, swill Starbucks, surf the web with an IPad, rest my carbine on a stack of sandbags, and shoot one box of M193 per day at B-27 paper targets at 25 yards.

Or not. I’ll keep FA on my ARs.

I have had to use my forward assist in combination with a suppressor after ~400 rounds w/o cleaning (all during the same rainy/crappy weather/muddy match).

I am sure you could get further without a suppressor, but suppressed is how I shoot so that is entirely normal/reasonble for me.

Really, what is having a FA costing you? Some weight? Aesthetics? Really? That little bump on the side of your gun bothers you so much you'd rather not having it go into battery when you need it?

Out of the thousands of ARs I have seen, I have only encountered one instance where a FA caused a proble: part of the FA assembly broke off inside the upper receiver and jammed the bolt in a slightly-out-of battery position. We couldn't figure out why the bolt would not draw back via the charging handle. Finally had to knock out the FA assembly pin, pull the guts out and the FA claw came out in two pieces (it was cast, could see the little air bubbles at the point where it fractured). It was a no-name upper and I do not know the source of that particular FA assembly.

I used mine a couple times today. And about the same every day for the last five days. Has absolutely nothing to do with malfunctions or forcing rounds in the chamber.

But as was stated, it depends on what you plan to do with it. I've always had them on everything, even a couple guns that didnt have carrier that it would even work with. lol

You don't need an FA until you need it. I see no reason to go without.

In line with Para's opinion on BUIS, there's no good reason not to have them.

As for myself I've used a FA multiple times both in & out of the Corps.

After reading this thread, I amend what I was going to say; "not that important" to "not that important...unless you're Fritz"

In a career in the infantry, I've never used it except when going through the motion of SPORTS or shooting dirty blanks basically single shot. Bang, pull charging handle, hit FA, bang...repeat.

For a defensive gun, I'm in the majority, doesn't hurt to have it. For a range gun, a lightweight build etc. there is no need for it.

I've had to use the forward assist a few times.

While I own a few ARs without one, I would want one on any AR that I intend to use for serious purposes.

If you think you'll NEED that rifle, not having a forward assist is simply stupid.

Too many people misunderstand the purpose of the forward assist.

It's to prevent a problem, not fix a problem.

Every time you chamber a round, or do a chamber check, you are supposed to use the FA to ensure the gun is fully in battery, so that you won't have a failure to fire.

If the gun does not fire when you pull the trigger, that is NOT the time to use the FA. You need to either transition to a secondary weapon, ie a pistol, or clear the malfunction.

I did not know this.
I do know that I am not reflexively using the forward assist when needed.

I should try this routinely.
Thanks, DMF.

Ok, you guys talked me into it, I'll stick with the upper with forward assist. Many good reasons given, thanks. Feel free to keep giving your opinions on the matter!

I went with the Aero Precision M4E1 Enhanced upper to fit the Aero Lower. Decided to go with FDE color scheme...just because I don't have that color.

I wouldn't build one or buy one without. I can't see any conceivable reason to delete it, especially in todays market.

quote:

Originally posted by RAMIUS:
Ok, you guys talked me into it, I'll stick with the upper with forward assist. Many good reasons given, thanks. Feel free to keep giving your opinions on the matter!

I went with the Aero Precision M4E1 Enhanced upper to fit the Aero Lower. Decided to go with FDE color scheme...just because I don't have that color.

Just pay attention to what you are doing.


I watched a video of a guy extract a cartridge from his rifle, and unbeknownst to him it left a bullet stuck in the lands.


His next round would not chamber, and he seated it with his forward assist.


Next trigger pull blew up the rifle.



He was stupid. Forward assist has some utility. Knowledge has more utility.