[QUOTE]Originally posted by hrcjon:
I have a number of these CZ's. And I have never gotten great accuracy on the .22winmag versions both 452 and 457 (I really have those for pests anyway so mostly I don't care). On the other hand the .22lr 457's I have have been stunning.[/QUOTE

Good to know. UPS delivered my new .22LR barrel today . Already have it mounted and ready to test. Fingers crossed for a good one !!

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:
I have a number of these CZ's. And I have never gotten great accuracy on the .22winmag versions both 452 and 457

OP -- The .22WMR has never been known for great accuracy, for a number of reasons.
- There really isn't a match round, one made for accurate paper punching.

- The ammo is usually built for velocity, and putting kinetic energy on varmints.

- The WMR bullets are often lighter than those of .22lr, resulting in even worse ballistics.

- A few rimfire caliber bullets play well with supersonic velocities. I don't believe any of them play well with the transonic velocities. As all WMR loads are supersonic at the muzzle, in relatively short order the bullets drop to Mach 1.2 (-ish). From here down to maybe Mach .9 the WMR bullets aren't flying as true as a subsonic .22lr does.

- Few rifle companies build what can be considered a tight match chamber in WMR. Anschutz is likely the major exception.

All things combined, the .22WMR is better suited for dispatching small varmints, not making purdy little groups on paper.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:
I have a number of these CZ's. And I have never gotten great accuracy on the .22winmag versions both 452 and 457

OP -- The .22WMR has never been known for great accuracy, for a number of reasons.
- There really isn't a match round, one made for accurate paper punching.

- The ammo is usually built for velocity, and putting kinetic energy on varmints.

- The WMR bullets are often lighter than those of .22lr, resulting in even worse ballistics.

- A few rimfire caliber bullets play well with supersonic velocities. I don't believe any of them play well with the transonic velocities. As all WMR loads are supersonic at the muzzle, in relatively short order the bullets drop to Mach 1.2 (-ish). From here down to maybe Mach .9 the WMR bullets aren't flying as true as a subsonic .22lr does.

- Few rifle companies build what can be considered a tight match chamber in WMR. Anschutz is likely the major exception.

All things combined, the .22WMR is better suited for dispatching small varmints, not making purdy little groups on paper.

Thanks for the input. I have often heard the same thing about the magnum round. I like shooting it , just don't live in an area where varmints are a real problem. Hence the purchase of the .22 LR barrel.

quote:

Originally posted by got2hav1:
Hence the purchase of the .22 LR barrel.

I don't know your experience with .22lr ammo, so if you already have this experience, just move on.

Almost every barrel behaves differently with different ammo brands and types. Thus, it takes some experimentation to find what is the most accurate with your barrel. But you can go down a never ending rabbit hole trying to chase the best accuracy, so at some time it's best to accept what ammo meets your expectations.

Barrels take a few shots of a different ammo type before accuracy stabilizes. If you stay within a manufacturing group -- say SK/Wolf/Lapua -- the number of shots to stabilize results could be minimal. Maybe as little as 5, but possibly 10.

If you change from SK/Wolf/Lapua to Eley, or RWS, or Remy, or Federal, or whatever -- 10 rounds of the new ammo is almost certainly the minimum. Could be 15, maybe even 20.

Bottom line -- don't shoot groups of only 5 rounds of each ammo type and expect realistic accuracy evaluation of the different ammo types.

Case in point with my Kimber, about a week ago. I started with Wolf Match Extra on a clean bore. The first 5 rounds at 50 and 75 yards were OK, but nothing special. The rifle came into its own with 5 round groups at 100, 108, and 150 yards. Then I switched to Lapua Center X -- 5 combined rounds at 50 & 75 yards, and the ammo was good to go. The Lapua was good at 100, 108, and 150 yards.

Then I switched to Eley Match. OK results with combined 5 at 50 and 75 yards. 5 at 100 yards were OK. 5 more at 108 were better. The ammo came into its own at 150 yards. So....15 rounds essentially had to be burned before the Eley worked well. YMMV

Fritz, yes I am learning about ammo preferences and you make some good points. As an update I upgraded my bench (shooting platform) . I purchased a tri pod style table from Caldwell (Stable Table) and a one piece rest from (Model 500)targetshooting.com. So now I have a solid platform to work from. Yesterday I shot some different ammo (RWS 100, Lapua Midas, Eley Club, and a box of old Federal Premium. Keep in mind I am still learning and most of the groups were not nearly this good. I still have some more ammo to try but right now the Federal was the clear favorite. 5 shot groups shot at 30 yds.

That's good shooting -- in the .6 to .7 MOA ballpark with the Federal ammo.

It's been long time since I've shot Federal Ultramatch. According to my old records, I shot products labeled UM22 and 922A. The UM22 was a little better in my Kimber. I recall that RWS made that ammo for Federal. By that time Federal began concentrating on their higher-volume lower-priced 22lr lines. I have a fair amount of Federal GM Target 711B on hand, which is decent ammo for its price -- equal to, if not a little better than CCI Standard.

RWS R100 is supersonic in most rifles. Might be the most accurate supersonic 22lr ammo out there, but it still suffers from stability issues in transonic flight at times. In my rifles, it's better than Lapua Polar Biathlon -- which is often considered the go-to for accurate supersonic rounds.

Lapua Midas+ is definitely on the pricey end of things. I compared Midas and Center X -- found that Midas didn't really give me additional accuracy, but it did cost more.

Eley Club was interesting for me. I obtained some really good groups, and then the next ones weren't so hot. It was fine for me out to 75-100 yards, then the vertical dispersion became fairly large.

All barrels are different, however for me...
RWS -- R100 outperformed R50, which I thought was odd. Special Match is the best load for me.

Eley -- Hands down the Match EPS loads in the Black box are the best for me. The Black box model that is co-branded Eley/Remington is good, too. I found the Match in the Red box (it's more expensive) didn't shoot as well as the Black box.

Thanks for the insight on your ammo records. I hope to try some more loads this weekend and hopefully I can find another brand it likes.

Since the Federal/RWS shot well, you might try RWS if you have some. R50 and R100 are currently available from two sources on the web -- any browser should pick them up.

Quality .22lr ammo in other brands is pretty tough to find.

The CZ didn't like the R100 , I have some Federal coming that is 1080 fps , so hoping that might work well. Also have some Eley Remington Target to try and some CCI SV. Lastly some SK Standard Plus. We 'll see how it does.

quote:

Originally posted by got2hav1:
The CZ didn't like the R100

I recently experimented with R100 and learned a few things.

In April I tested my match ammo options, to prep for a 22lr match this past weekend. On a windy day the RWS R100 outperformed other ammo -- Eley Match, Lapua Center X, Wolf Match Extra. The R100 held vertical variation about the same as the other ammo at distances of 100-150 yards. At 200 yards the R100 was noticeably better, and at 250 yards the R100 was really quite good.

I took a chance and built dope cards for my four remaining boxes of R100. One stage had five targets from 286 to 408 yards, thus the higher MV of the R100 allowed me to dial elevation up for the 339 yard target (target #3 of 5), then use minimal reticle hold overs for the last two targets. To be honest, my squad mates at the match questioned my decision.

The R100 performed extremely well for the small (2" ish) targets -- those used from 50-120 yards. I didn't miss a single small target, even with some interesting breezes. My wind calls weren't quite as good for the longer targets, even though they were larger. Oh well.

The interesting point is that I experienced 3 unexplained high flyers, out of the 80 shots in the match. The shots were a few inches high at distances of roughly 150, 200, and 340 yards. High enough impacts that they were the cause of the target misses. I broke the shots correctly, and my subsequent shots were dead on. As we saw it, the R100 bullets either didn't play well with transonic flight, or the ammo's inherent MV variation messed up accuracy. I suspect my own testing in April was not done with a large enough sample size. I may not have noticed the flyers, or maybe they didn't occur during practice.

So....I plan to try some more R50 ammo, and compare it vary carefully to my remaining stash of Lapua Center X. Back to subsonic ammo when accuracy really counts.

Bought another CZ today. A NIB 452 American. It's a purty gun with great fit and finish. The seller apparently bought several of these new in 2016 and this was the last of the bunch. Waiting on some mounts to get the scope sorted out. Trigger pull came out to be 3-1/2 pounds on my Lyman gauge.

For all you CZ-22 owners, how do you avoid gouging your cleaning rod on the ejector corner - short of taking it out?

I spend a lot of time on the rimfire forum and I believe most of those guys have some sort of bore guide, not sure if that is what it's for or not. Myself , since I don't have many rounds through any of mine, I use a bore snake.

I've always loved the balance of the 45x series of CZ rimfires. My 452 FS is a favorite of woods jaunts around the family property.


They feel like a rifle in hand, vs some 22s that just feel less substantial.

quote:

Originally posted by jjkroll32:
I've always loved the balance of the 45x series of CZ rimfires. My 452 FS is a favorite of woods jaunts around the family property.


They feel like a rifle in hand, vs some 22s that just feel less substantial.

Agreed, they feel like a full sized rifle rather than a scaled down model. Fit and finish are top notch, just a well made piece.

quote:

Originally posted by sgalczyn:
For all you CZ-22 owners, how do you avoid gouging your cleaning rod on the ejector corner - short of taking it out?

I use a .17 cal Pro-Shot SS cleaning rod. Works great.


...

CZ's are addictive....

I bought this CZ 452 a few months ago...


And will be buying this one this Sunday. CZ 452 Ultra Lux 22 lr. Guy says it is stupid accurate.