If you get a steady hold, on a lot of targets you can see hits with a quality 12x bino at 100 yds. At least I can. I am not saying its perfect. But works.

If others are checking targets. You can step out 10-20yds and see even better. Ymmv

quote:

Originally posted by old rugged cross:
If you get a steady hold, on a lot of targets you can see hits with a quality 12x bino at 100 yds. At least I can. I am not saying its perfect. But works.

If others are checking targets. You can step out 10-20yds and see even better. Ymmv

My worry is that if I go past the standard practical 10x or 12x for better target recognition I’ve eliminated the essence of practical Biko use.

Hope that makes sense, reaching the far extremes of one makes both uses less that average, too high power binos for low end spotting.

I think I just need to quit being cheap, I’ve got an expensive safe, expensive optics, if I want to own high end guns then I need to spring for comparable shooting accessories.

I was just trying to find a loophole but I don’t think it exists ORC.

No I understand. As I said I have two quality bino's. Bought both used. I have about $1200 in the pair. They are excellent glass. For my needs they do everything I need. I am planning to spend about $100+- for a tripod to use occasionally with the 12x.
I do not punch holes in 600-1000 yd targets. If I did I would drive down to check them. So what I do, my set up is great. Good luck in what ever you do.

You guys are focusing on glass quality. You can do that if it makes you feel better. But all glass these days is better than it was 50 years ago. The problem you should look at is the ability to hold them steady. That's why I recommended Canon IS models. The IS stands for interally stabilized. No, I don't know how it works. When you push the little button, some little motor runs inside. I'd imagine its a stabilizer kind of thing. Too hi tech for me, but it really works. The image becomes rock solid.

I can see about 2 miles up stream and with the button pushed, I can tell if the little blob is a girl or a guy. Or 2 of them instead just one.

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:
most of my optics max out at 9x or less

I’ve got an expensive safe, expensive optics, if I want to own high end guns then I need to spring for comparable shooting accessories.

You don't list what optics you own. A 9x optic is likely a 3-9x, which is a rather old-school scope design. 3-9x scopes work quite well for basic hunting and plinking applications. Who knows how many have been purchased, and I suspect most of them are still working just fine. I have one on my Dad's Winchester pre-64 Model 70. I doubt very many shooters would consider them expensive optics, and they're not optimal for some types of target shooting.

IMO, for most of us, a shooter's best target spotting device is the scope attached the gun being shot. If the shooter is working solo -- i.e. without a second person spotting his shots and providing instant impact feedback -- this is especially true. This is not an off-the-hip supposition, but rather of experience in competition and practice.

When the shooter must get his eye out of the rifle scope and into another optical device, part of the performance feedback loop is lost. The shooter may not take the time to fully follow through on the shot. He may not note how the rifle recoiled, if the reticle stayed on point of aim, or estimate where the shot might have landed. Once eyes are in the spotting device, the shooter must then determine which are the previous impacts, and which is the new one.

When a rifle scope possesses adequate magnification and clarity to see impacts on a given target, the shooter can better practice the fundamentals of marksmanship and better determine the results of every trigger pull.

If most of your shooting is at paper targets at 100 yards, consider investing in rifle scopes that provide instant feedback on your shooting results.

A second option is using targets which provide more visible feedback of impact location. Paper targets with solid black rings are among the worst. White targets on a well-used target backer (say, coroplast or cardboard) that is backlit by the sun isn't much better. Shoot-N-See targets work very well as long as round count per target is relatively low. Pasters can extend the life of Shoot-N-See targets.

I should have bought a Kowa when they were less expensive, and missed a few deals from folks getting out of the high power/service rifle game,

I used a Straight Bushnell spacemaster , the went up to 60X IIRC, that was good for seeing holes out to about 200, if the light was right

then picked up an old Bushnell angled, that works very well on the short range (100 yrds) for both 22 and 30 cal, and did well at Perry to read the boards,

however it is not a LER,

now use it, or a vintage Unertl (better glass, ) angled that is the same, not LER,


both are old school, which I am good with, but you would be better served with a LER scope,


JMHO

What is ler? Longer eye relief????

quote:

I should have bought a Kowa when they were less expensive, and missed a few deals from folks getting out of the high power/service rifle game,

When I lived in Northern California, there was a terrific optics dealer in the little town of Mendocino on the coast (it's still there--Out of This World Optics. They had a sale on Kowa scopes, <$1000. But I looked through the sale scope, then at the top-of-the-line Proximar scopes, and ended up spending $2800 instead of a grand and have been very happy I did.

I know we buy most of our stuff online these days, but if possible looking through and comparing scopes--whether spotting or rifle scopes--is far better. Especially if you can support a local shop like the one I mentioned (they don't do riflescopes but have astronomical scopes, spotting scopes, and binoculars, all in a wide price range up to the best.