I tried to be as descriptive in the title as I could.

I have a lower that when purchased, was put in as a rifle on the form at the LGS. Can I legally put a pistol brace and less than 16" barrel on that lower? Would it be a pistol?

I have another lower that was put down as "other" on the paperwork. Same question.

Thank you for any clarification.

Faced with more or less the same question, my research lead me to these concepts and conclusions.
1. once a rifle always a rifle. The only reason for a stripped lower to be a rifle on a 4733 is that it was acquired ages ago (when the only options were rifle or pistol, I have several of these lowers and I treat them as rifles to be conservative as I can find no ATF guidance that suggests otherwise)
2. if an 'other' then it needs to start life as pistol and then it can go back and forth freely between pistol and rifle. If it starts life as a rifle see #1. I have no idea how the ATF would know any of that, but that's the law.
Hope that helps.

My understanding is that once transferred as a rifle you don’t want a short barrel on it. I have a few old lowers sitting around as well.

Thank you for the responses!

A brand new lower without a stock, or a stripped lower is an “other”. If the LGS screwed up and checked “rifle” on the 4473 instead of “other”, then they made a mistake. The actual test is whether the lower was first assembled with a stock, making it a rifle, not what it says on the 4473. If you bought a stripped lower, that was never assembled as anything, then you have the choice what to do with it, and it becomes whatever you first assemble it as. If you first assemble it with a stock, it’s a rifle, and can’t ever be a pistol. If you first assemble it as a pistol, it’s a pistol.

Unless they were purchased before you could choose “other.” I still have a couple AR lowers I bought before I was 21 and had transferred as rifles.

That's a sticky point I'd be curious about too, since I have receivers from the pre "other" days. They are on paper as "rifle".

For me it's more a curiosity than something I care about, because I have enough receivers that it's a moot point, really, and I'd SBR it anyway, if it mattered that much.

quote:

The actual test is whether the lower was first assembled with a stock, making it a rifle, not what it says on the 4473.

I have researched this issue extensively due to the older pre-other receivers I have and I can find no ATF guidance that matches that statement. SO if you have some reference material let us know what they are...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: hrcjon,

quote:

Originally posted by Dwill104:
A brand new lower without a stock, or a stripped lower is an “other”. If the LGS screwed up and checked “rifle” on the 4473 instead of “other”, then they made a mistake. The actual test is whether the lower was first assembled with a stock, making it a rifle, not what it says on the 4473. If you bought a stripped lower, that was never assembled as anything, then you have the choice what to do with it, and it becomes whatever you first assemble it as. If you first assemble it with a stock, it’s a rifle, and can’t ever be a pistol. If you first assemble it as a pistol, it’s a pistol.

Winner winner chicken dinner. I spoke to Midwest Industries at length on this. Makes no logical sense….but that is the gun law as it currently stands.

Its almost chicken dinner but not quite. One part of this has had several ATF guidance letters and that response is that the making of a rifle occurs when it is a barreled rifle action. The act of attaching a stock doesn't make a stripped receiver a rifle.
From an example ATF letter on this issue "Further, the stocked receiver described in your question is not a rifle as defined in Federal firearms statutes because it never contained an attached rifled barrel."
The issue of the older receivers that were processed when the choices on a 4473 where pistol or rifle I am personally confident that the designation on the 4473 does not change anything legally and what matters is how it is ultimately assembled, but as I said above I have never actually seen an ATF letter that says that. But to be honest I have not searched in awhile.

quote:

Originally posted by Underdog:
I tried to be as descriptive in the title as I could.

I have a lower that when purchased, was put in as a rifle on the form at the LGS. Can I legally put a pistol brace and less than 16" barrel on that lower? Would it be a pistol?

I have another lower that was put down as "other" on the paperwork. Same question.

Thank you for any clarification.

Were they both stripped lowers ?

If an AR lower is was factory built out as a rifle lower and was shipped as a "rifle" (or came from a parted out existing rifle) it would properly transfer as a "Rifle." Such a lower could be SBR'ed but not legally be made into a pistol as "once a rifle, always a rifle" based on case law. Some assembled lowers will be factory designated as rifles or pistols by the manufacturer for state level legal reasons.

An assembled lower which shipped as a "receiver" and has never been built into a complete rifle (with barreled upper and stock) can be switched but once it's been built into a rifle with a barreled upper and stock it's a rifle forever.

A stripped lower should transfer as a "receiver" and can then be built into a pistol, an "other firearm" or a rifle.

quote:

If an AR lower is was (?) factory built out as a rifle lower and was shipped as a "rifle"

I have not a clue what specific item that might be being described. I fully get the fact that ATF says that once you have made a rifle, you are stuck with it being forever a rifle. I also get that the ATF has said to actually make a rifle you need to have a barrel on it. So somewhere there are factory people making rifles and then disassembling them and selling the lowers? I seriously doubt it. The fact that a mfg offers "rifle" lowers meaning with a stock is not indicative that the lower is a rifle lower forever destined to be used only on rifles.

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:

quote:

If an AR lower is was (?) factory built out as a rifle lower and was shipped as a "rifle"

So somewhere there are factory people making rifles and then disassembling them and selling the lowers? I seriously doubt it. The fact that a mfg offers "rifle" lowers meaning with a stock is not indicative that the lower is a rifle lower forever destined to be used only on rifles.

Surprised no one from CT has responded yet. On that note, don't put these on ATF radar please, we have enough problems.

There are quite a few manufacturers that list plain lowers as receiver/other only. A few of these manufacturers actually create and sell "others", not to be confused with AOWs. 12"+ barrel, no stock, VFG, 26"+ overall length. For the most part if you can buy a new receiver, you can make an "other/firearm".

I would think a skilled lawyer could argue that a lower that was never assembled into a rifle , and then was used to assemble a pistol, is thus, a pistol. Would we really send a man to prison for ten years because a minimum wage clerk at a gun store made a clerical error on a form??!!

You don't need a lawyer for that particular one. The ATF has already issued a number of FB letters that say its not a rifle till it has a barrel and if it starts as a pistol it can go to a rifle and back.

What I have heard repeatedly stated is a rifle is a rifle.

A receiver can be anything...until it's transferred as a rifle. And then it's a rifle.

When I transfer a receiver on a 4473, I list type as "receiver".

If the manufacturer mistakenly lists their receiver as "rifle" instead of "receiver", it doesn't matter because as a FFL, I'm obligated to log items in my A&D books accurately. I don't care what the distributor lists in their books, I care about what I list in my books. If they mistakenly send out something with a wrong serial number, I'm not going to list an incorrect serial number in my books, I'll list the correct one. As a courtesy, I'll call them and let them know of such a huge error.


Tony.

Odduseus , I don’t understand the CT remark.
E mail directly.