quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:

quote:

This is a primary reason I bought suppressors for carbines and precision rifles.

Agreed.

I rarely shoot SBRs unsuppressed - the only reason I keep them off of 16" ARs is they make them unwieldily for close range drills - which is just a way to save round count on the SBRs and Suppressors.

I do keep a M38 Mosin in the trunk if people want to play the loud muzzle blast game. A round of 762x54R silvertip every 2 minutes is usually enough to get any jackasses to leave for another range.

Usually the only reason I shoot mine without the can. Is so I can show people how effective my Form 1 Titanium can is. I run x3 rounds through. Then screw the can on and it stays there the rest of the time.

Refer to the OPs post.

Sorry but no one needs anyone's okay to buy / build what they like.

quote:

Originally posted by IndianaBoy:


If it's a range toy for fun, go ahead and build whatever tickles your fancy.

It's nice to hear folks opinions and hearing from the long range efficienotos is interesting.
But building a 7-8" AR, for anything other than fun, means it's for potential close work that we all hope never is called for.
Mine is for close work & had been absconded by my 4'11" wife as it fits her better than my AKs.

Builds are & should be purpose driven.
Hell, you can have fun with anything.
But the OP has asked about specific issues concerning shorter AR pistols & SBRs.
Not whether it offends someone's sensibilities.

Indiana Boy & Fritz, it is well documented on this forum from your past posts that the both of you despise loud firearms (pathetic as I myself may find that) it offers little to the OPs post outside of his "Educate me all around if you would" statement.

It's his question, his money & his discussion.

Yes a short barrel is loud it's also extremely handy and as of recent.... very reliable.

The rest is, like anyones "opinion" on this particular aspect of the AR setup, subjective. YMMV



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This message has been edited. Last edited by: GrumpyBiker,

quote:

Originally posted by GrumpyBiker:
Refer to the OPs post.

Sorry but no one needs anyone's okay to buy / build what they like.

quote:

Originally posted by IndianaBoy:


If it's a range toy for fun, go ahead and build whatever tickles your fancy.

It's nice to hear folks opinions and hearing from the long range efficienotos is interesting.
But building a 7-8" AR, for anything other than fun, means it's for potential close work that we all hope never is called for.
Mine is for close work & had been absconded by my 4'11" wife as it fits her better than my AKs.

Builds are & should be purpose driven.
Hell, you can have fun with anything.
But the OP has asked about specific issues concerning shorter AR pistols & SBRs.
Not whether it offends someone's sensibilities.

Indiana Boy & Fritz, it is well documented on this forum from your past posts that the both of you despise loud firearms (pathetic as I myself may find that) it offers little to the OPs post outside of his "Educate me all around if you would" statement.

It's his question, his money & his discussion.

Yes a short barrel is loud it's also extremely handy and as of recent.... very reliable.

The rest is, like anyones "opinion" on this particular aspect of the AR setup, subjective. YMMV



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Maybe I should have phrase it differently.

I have some loud rifles. My 3-gun rifle was knocking rust from the underside of a prop car I was shooting under at a match.

As such, I can't even begin to fathom using that rifle for home defense, even though it is probably the rifle I shoot best and has the highest quality optic. I have enough tinnitus as it is.

As for specifics around being 'purpose driven', I touched on that concerning barrel length and external ballistics/terminal performance. 223 drops off significantly when you get shorter than 10 inches. Massive increase in concussion and muzzle flash, decrease in terminal performance. There is also the realities of the performance envelope of reliability with a pistol length gas system. Clearly it can be made to work but it is going to require a massively oversized gas port. It would be interesting to see what sort of service life will be gotten out of a bolt that is unlocking that early. To some, that probably doesn't matter. To me, it does.

I'm sitting a few feet from an 11.5 pistol with a silencer that typically pulls home defense duty around here. If I'm forced to use it, it is nice to know that I, my wife, and my kids, won't suffer permanent hearing damage.

If I were going to build a PCC or a 22lr AR and was going to equip them with a can, I would probably land right in that 7.5in ballpark. 5.56, not for me.

I don't give two shits what you consider to be 'pathetic'.

The common advice in 5.56 is to stick to 10.5" and longer barrels. Reliability can be "iffy" below that, you are getting less gas and dwell time through the system. The velocity drop also takes a big hit on terminal performance. So, for defense, I'd stick to 10.5" though many people have reliable 7.5"s.

.300 BLK is a great caliber to go shorter, I did an 8.5" pistol build in that caliber.

My primary HD gun is a 10.5" in 5.56. It runs great and the flash is tamed (almost 100%) by an AAC Blackout FH. Similar performing ones would be the Phantom and Smith Vortex.

Some people shoot to make noise, others shoot to make holes in paper, dings on steel, and or effects on target.

For super short AR15s, the military uses 300BLK and the conventional wisdom is <10.5”, the 5.56x45’s negatives outweighs it’s positives.

Sure, for a range toy that gets a couple hundred rounds a year, it doesn’t remotely matter.

Grumpy, and everyone else ... If you've looked at Grumpy's post about SBR's and Pistols lately it's likely you've seen mine ... although some of the labels are wrong ... I'll get it fixed. The 10.5" Colt at the bottom is actually a 7.5" 5.56 and the 8" 300AAC at the top is actually a 10.5" 300AAC. So as it turns out I already own the one configuration I was asking about ... I've shot it once and put it on the wall.

It's embarrassing to admit that I've got uppers I've forgotten about because I've only shot them once, some I've had for just a few years, but ones like the BOHICA I've had since the '94 ban ... too many of them sit on the wall because I bought it on a whim, but over the past few years I've had regrets about trading or selling firearms so I don't anymore unless I know I'm done with it.

The direction I've decided to go, thanks to input from this thread, is to finish the Sparkle lower and mate it to the AR57 upper ... It's kinda fitting for a lower with a rainbow/unicorn logo and an anemic round; but it does have a 50 round mag and its completely reliable, a 5.5" flash hider/barrel extension shows about 1" out the end of the monolithic upper and best of all, I've got about 1,200 rounds for it ... and I don't really need a Dead Pool gun anyway ... If my whim dictates otherwise at some future date, I've got a 7.5" on the wall!

In looking at the braces that have come out in the last few years, I'm thinking the SB Tactical PDW Collapsible Brace would be the perfect compliment for this project. As mentioned by someone, the brace offers many of the benefits of a SBR, without the hassles or additional expense.

I do appreciate all the responses, it's all good info to take into consideration ... Even though we all have different likes we can all share thoughts and info without being a dick about it, it's what makes this place special and you guys are the BEST!

Turn your Jack into a pistol! That would be cool as hell! I just remembered I have a warthog lower still in a box, but my next pistol is coming from a Spikes Viking lower. You could always order the new gen 2 Jack lower for your rifle upper and turn your present Jack into a pistol!

quote:

Originally posted by Tommydogg:
Turn your Jack into a pistol! That would be cool as hell! I just remembered I have a warthog lower still in a box, but my next pistol is coming from a Spikes Viking lower. You could always order the new gen 2 Jack lower for your rifle upper and turn your present Jack into a pistol!

It's already SBR'd ... I've 4 other lowers in the safe, but they have stock ... I've got 3-4 more compleat uppers on the wall, but they're 16" or longer and Grumpy thread is for SBR's and Pistols.

I've got another Jack lower that isn't SBR'd but 12-15 years ago I put together a varmint gun using mostly parts from JP Enterprise for the upper, then last year I put together a 6.5 Creedmoor, again with JP parts but a 308 Jack receiver ... I'd say I spared no expense but we all know, there's always some way to spend more on an AR ...
Anyway, I wanted the 2 to look more alike.



I wish people had been selling them with the bone paint jobs when I put these together.

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This message has been edited. Last edited by: kimberkid,

IMHO, I would not go shorter than 10.3”inches in 5.56 NATO. If I needed something with a shorter barrel length, I would go with a 5-9” inch barrel 300 Blackout AR.

I ended up with putting the AR-57 upper on my Spikes Sparkle lower ...



As to the 7.5" 2.23 upper I "found" ... it has a gas tube that wraps around the barrel 3 times if memory serves, the guy that I bought it from (with the barrel) said it reduces the harsh recoil impulse as the tube is the same length as a standard carbine tube. anyway it has a 13"(?) float tube and I used to have a 6" tube for it but a buddy needed it, since I only shoot it suppressed I prefer the longer handguard.

I don't know if it's less harsh but it functions perfectly ... after going through the safe, I have a lower with an eagle that is designed from the company's acronym ... its made here in Kansas and I'm not sure if I'll SBR it or just make a pistol out of it using the SB Tactical PDW Collapsible Arm Brace ... or just SBR it ... cost is about the same.

I have a Core 15 Pistol with a 10" barrel but I prefer shooting my Yugo NPAP AK pistol instead. Just my preference. It is accurate and easy to control and I'm sure that is hits harder than shorty AR's.

The shortest AR I have is 7” and it is very accurate out to 100 yards although I have never checked the velocity. I do believe I have a heavy buffer in mine. As has been said, no special Ammo required. I do not and would not use a suppressor on it as it could hurt the suppressor.

quote:

Originally posted by StorminNormin: I do not and would not use a suppressor on it as it could hurt the suppressor.

I'm new to this, but is this statement accurate?

quote:

Originally posted by craigcpa:

quote:

Originally posted by StorminNormin: I do not and would not use a suppressor on it as it could hurt the suppressor.

I'm new to this, but is this statement accurate?

I have an AAC 762-SDN-6 and it states to use it on a 300blk no shorter than 7.5”. http://www.advanced-armament.c...rmation_ep_50-1.html

I can’t find it right now but I recall for this same suppressor it says for 5.56 not to use it on less than around 12.5”. So I am speaking of this suppressor and maybe there is one out there that can go on a 5.56 rifle of less than 10” with no worries of damage to the suppressor. I make sure to follow what the suppressor manufacture recommends.

quote:

Originally posted by craigcpa:

quote:

Originally posted by StorminNormin: I do not and would not use a suppressor on it as it could hurt the suppressor.

I'm new to this, but is this statement accurate?

Yes - depending on caliber, suppressor manufacturer / construction / barrel length.

I don't have a 223 specific suppressor for that reason.

I used my YHM 30Ti suppressor on my 7" 223 the other day and it was fine ...

I don't know how long my warranty is good for but its 30 caliber and full auto rated; however I doubt they would honor the warranty as I've used it on my belt-fed upper on my M16 and a couple times it was visibly glowing in the day-light and expansion chamber area is now a different color than the front of it.

Best advise is to check with your manufacturer.

Here's what I've got so far, getting back to the 7 or 7.5" 223 I didn't realize I had because I had a long handguard on it.
I was digging around in my safe and looking for something else when I noticed my pre-ban blue PWA ... I had bought the receiver and pieced it together from unused parts that were in the parts box ... anyway it had the same tube on it, only short! The two use the same barrel nut so I can screw one or the other on. Total length of the long one is 13" and the other is 7.5 ... isn't the AR platform just GREAT!



I may change the KAK tube, or get another blade ... I've got a shorter tube with a foam cover but the cover is too short for the KAK.
Regardless, for me its a perfect fit for the scope without a cheekrest.