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After being at the range today with my Colt 6920, I need some help. I have a Vortex Strike Eagle 1-6 and after sighting it in for a 50/200 yd zero, I cannot get a consistent group even at 100 yards. I'll have a couple rounds where I want them, and the rest are scattered. I know I need to work on my fundamentals, but frankly, I think the horrible stock trigger is making it more difficult than it needs to be. It's rough, gritty, creepy and just downright crappy. I tried another guy's riffle with an aftermarket trigger, and it made such a difference! What should I look at for replacement triggers without buying the most "hi-end" trigger available. I want to use the rifle for hunting, target, and a potential HD weapon. You've given me a lot of help on butt stock replacement, now I want a new trigger and a bi-pod! Thanks in advance for your suggestions! "Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die." Joe Louis | ||
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| Sigless in Indiana  |
Larue MBT is great for $125. I snagged one on sale for $99 a while back. | |||
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To all of you who are serving or have served our country, Thank You |
What ammo were you using? | |||
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| Member |
Look into an ALG Defense trigger. Good feel, not expensive. It's basically a reworked, soothed USGI trigger, that is as reliable as one, but feels much, much better than one. There are others, but they cost more. What are you looking to spend? That would give me a better idea of what to recommend. The ALG Defense triggers are good quality and very good on value. ARman | |||
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Federal 223 55GRN FMJ "Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die." Joe Louis | |||
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| Member |
Under $100 "Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die." Joe Louis | |||
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| Sigless in Indiana |
Double check that everything is torqued properly on your mount. That can create the symptoms you are describing. What size groups are you getting? 2 MOA is pretty good for a rack grade carbine, despite all the online BS about sub-MOA gas guns. | |||
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I'll check the mount and rings, thanks. I'm getting a 4-5" spread at 100 yards (6 rounds), although I can have a couple rounds be within an inch. Biggest spread is left to right vs. elevation. Very little wind today. Sand bag rest. There's a dueling tree at 200 yards (6" diameter) and at times I could hit 6 out of 8 shots, then later, couldn't hit any of them. "Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die." Joe Louis | |||
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| Administrator |
Something else to consider (which, IMO is more detrimental to your groups than your trigger) is that your stock 6920 does not have a free floated barrel. Change the pressure on your barrel and you will alter the deflection on your barrel = POI shift. That isn't to say that you can't do better than 4-5" @ 100 yards with a non-free floated barrel, but free floating the barrel will eliminate a very difficult-to-gauge variable (i.e. how much pressure you're putting on the barrel). People tend to tighten down if they miss. Net effect is they wind up putting more pressure on the forearm. If you're on a bipod, you're pushing forward, which is pulling in the barrel down where it meets the bipod. If you're benched on a rest, you're probably coming down harder on the rifle to keep it snug, which means your pushing the barrel up at the point where it meets the rest. The more pressure you put on the barrel, the more it's likely to shoot differently than when you relaxedly zeroed it last week. The more frustrated you get, the more you change the deflection, and you don't even know you're doing it. If you're shooting for groups, I wouldn't even bother with a bipod until you free float the barrel. By properly loading your bipod, you'll be putting even more deflection on the barrel. People jump to the trigger as the first resort because triggers have tactile feedback. They feel better. But if you're still yanking the barrel this way, then that way between shots, all your guns is going to do is feel better. It won't shoot better. That is why I generally recommend prioritizing a FF bbl before trigger. An experienced shooter can compensate for a crappy trigger. Much harder to feel out consistent pressure on a barrel. | |||
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Were you next to me at the range today?!?!?! What you described makes perfect sense and is exactly what I did today. I did much better earlier in the shoot where I relaxed and didn't attempt to hold down the forend. In my attempt to improve, I tried a tighter hold on the forend against the sandbags and did worse. I think you are spot on in your assessment. I likely would have done better offhand. Thanks for the coaching....I will take this knowledge to the range! "Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die." Joe Louis | |||
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| Sigless in Indiana |
I can't remember the exact numbers, but an experienced shooter on Enos forum did an experiment with a sling. I think deliberately heavy sling tension on an unfloated barrel induced something like 10 MOA of horizontal shift!!! I have floated everything except my retro build. Just one less variable in the equation. | |||
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So now a quest to replace my Magpul forend with a free float forend of some kind.......suggestions? I have the standard front sight base on my 6920. "Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die." Joe Louis | |||
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Rule #1: Use enough gun |
ALG ACT trigger is a HUGE improvement over the stock trigger for around $65. When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed. Luke 11:21 "Every nation in every region now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists." -- George W. Bush | |||
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Do you want to keep the front sight? If not you can get an ALG Defense EMR V2M-LOK 10" rail for $145.00 plus the special wrench for $5.00…a low profile gas block for $14.00ish (or cut/grind down the FSB to fit under the handguard, alittle black paint or cold blue will have it all back to shape) and for $165.00+/- have a very nice ALG Defense rail, add the ALG Defense trigger for $65.00 and have a budget friendly upgrade that with both the free float handguard and trigger will add to your carbines accuracy, usability and not distract from it's built-in reliability. If you have an upper receiver vice block installing the ALG Defense EMR V2M-LOK 10" rail is simple, just follow the instructions. If you don't have a vice block, a cheap one will do, and they aren't too expensive. To your accuracy, yeah any change in pressure on the non free float handguard will change the impact of the bullet. Even if you are not moving/deflecting the barrel you will change the barrels harmonics. How it vibrates from shot to shot. If you could hold it the exact same place at the same exact pressure the group will be the same. Any change, will change the barrels harmonics and that could/will change the bullets impact. ARman | |||
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| Sigless in Indiana |
You have a magnified optic, so this is what I would recommend. Retain the existing gas block, as it is pinned and very robust. Cut off the upper portion that is essentially only a front sight base. THere are lots of examples if you do a google search for 'shaved front sight base'. Then you can pick almost any hand guard. I'm a big fan of the offerings from Armalite: http://www.opticsplanet.com/ar...lack-153gnhgd15.html Clamping force is substantial, and this design allows you to properly torque the barrel nut, without worrying about indexing it to align the handguard. There are MANY designs that in my opinion are wrong-headed in that they force you to index a crucial part of an upper that is supposed to be torqued to a certain specification. Without using shims to guarantee that you are indexed and torqued to the proper specification, (what a pain in the ass!), it is very non-ideal. I think BCM KMR rails also utilize a round barrel nut with wrench flats that allows you this flexibility. Having installed both types (different types for various friends), I will never use a handguard that requires me to index the barrel nut to align the top rail. | |||
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| Administrator |
With the recent decline in AR prices, it's possible to buy an complete free-floated upper w/bcg for just the price of what a barrel and BCG would have cost you a year ago: http://palmettostatearmory.com...cg-ch-516444560.html http://palmettostatearmory.com...t-set-516446454.html Before you go hacking on your Colt, I would consider just buying a new upper. In the end, with gun-smithing charges and down-time, the cost of modifying your existing upper may be more than simply having a spare upper. By having a separate upper, you'll be able to keep your 6920 as it was, in factory condition, and have a "shooter" upper. Any trigger upgrades you do later carry over, but two uppers offers greater flexibility and isn't a huge financial step in this market. You were willing to spend $100 on a trigger, but if you put it toward an upper, you're already 1/3-1/4 the way there. | |||
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| Sigless in Indiana |
Good advice. And those two uppers are both very nice. A complete upper for about $100 more than what many handguards alone on the market cost right now. Palmetto has changed the AR market..... | |||
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| To all of you who are serving or have served our country, Thank You |
You could just get a ALG Defense ACT Advanced Combat Trigger Group https://www.midwayusa.com/prod...4-single-stage-matte And perhaps something like a midway Caldwell rest if you do have a decent rest https://ads.midwayusa.com/prod...Y9_s6mxoCylkQAvD_BwE Than work on your technique. A 6920 is no varmint rifle but it will do much better than you are coming up with even with not so accurate FMJ ammo. If you have not done so try resting the rifle on the rest in the same spot on front handguard your hand would be if you were shooting off hand. In a good rest you should have to use very little to no pressure up front. For starting out try just shoothing 5 shot groups and let the barrel cool down a little in between groups. Usually those chrome line barrels such as the 6920 will shoot better groups after 500 or 600 hundred rounds than when they are new. So long as the barrel is brush out and cleaned a little along the way. I had some colts that shot 1" plus tighter groups after 1000 rounds than when they were new. Once you get your technique better try some different ammo such as a Match grade like the 75 grain Hornady. | |||
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| Member |
All great comments! I looked at several videos about shaving (hacking up is more like it) the front sight, and frankly, I'm not excited about doing it myself. Looking strictly at costs: shave job, tools to do it (which I do not have), new forend, etc., I might be better off with a new upper as you suggest. So the question becomes, what to look for in a new quality upper? Do I go with a longer barrel? I was considering getting a Suppressor at some point.... many points to ponder and I appreciate the input. "Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die." Joe Louis | |||
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Check Fire! Put down the dremel tool and step away from the rifle !  LDD and Jelly gave you some good advice on your technique. Kyle Lamb even wrote about what LDD is talking about in his book "Green Eyes, Black Rifles" IIRC Lamb said he observed a 4 MOA shift when force was applied to the barrel. While a free float rail will help, just like LDD said, good technique will help too just like Jelly and LDD said. Go back to the range and shoot off a rest or sand bag and see what the rifle does. Also try different ammo or have another shooter try. try to isolate the actual cause of the issue, don't just throw parts at it. Check and make sure all your screws are torqued to the proper spec (check your manual). Did you clean and grease your rifle when you got it? did you lubricate the trigger group after you cleaned it? How many rounds have you actually shot through the rifle and how familiar are you with the AR family of rifles? | |||
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