Had some play time with a 12 gauge and it was cool but a bit of a handful with buckshot. Anybody played with the 20? Actually will pick mine up today. There is something........ well.......neat about this. Anyone else care to share about your opinions? Toy or tool?

I think they have a definite use. There's precious few defensive weapons that could deliver that payload with that effect in close quarters.

It's certainly not a do-all weapon, and certainly not as effective as a shoulder fired variant, but then again, a shoulder fired variant won't fit nicely under or behind the seat of my truck.

Get an SB brace to make it more manageable and a Hera side folder to keep a small footprint.

I just want one. In 12 Gauge though.

The price isn't so bad for the crazy little thing either.

quote:

Originally posted by WARPIG602:
Get an SB brace to make it more manageable and a Hera side folder to keep a small footprint.

Any such modification changes it from 'firearm' to something else (AOW? Pistol?); that would be a definitely a no-no in the eyes of the ATF. One key point of Mossberg's Shockwave submittal for AFT review is that the bird's head grip is to be configured to be 'non-removable' in order to maintain the 'firearm' designation that the Shockwave (and Remington's TAC-14) has. If one submitted that brace config to ATF, I'm sure that they could come back saying that it's a pistol but that it has to be manufactured in that configuration from the beginning, and not a modification using a different classification of weapon as the starting point. At least not without going through the tax stamp process assuming that in their eyes that's even permitted.

quote:

Originally posted by soggy_spinout:

quote:

Originally posted by WARPIG602:
Get an SB brace to make it more manageable and a Hera side folder to keep a small footprint.

Any such modification changes it from 'firearm' to something else (AOW? Pistol?); that would be a definitely a no-no in the eyes of the ATF. One key point of Mossberg's Shockwave submittal for AFT review is that the bird's head grip is to be configured to be 'non-removable' in order to maintain the 'firearm' designation that the Shockwave (and Remington's TAC-14) has. If one submitted that brace config to ATF, I'm sure that they could come back saying that it's a pistol but that it has to be manufactured in that configuration from the beginning, and not a modification using a different classification of weapon as the starting point. At least not without going through the tax stamp process assuming that in their eyes that's even permitted.

Nope.

MODEL 870 TAC-14 ARM BRACE

If they can sell it from the factory we can roll our own. Show them how stupid these laws are.

It handles great.

So is the Shockwave officially classified as a pistol? If so, it would be interesting to have one as a "Special situation" concealed carry handgun. Andrews custom leather offers the Firepower rig:

http://www.andrewsleather.com/traditional.htm

quote:

Originally posted by Sgt Neutron:
So is the Shockwave officially classified as a pistol?

No, it’s a “Firearm”. Not a pistol, shotgun etc. More stupidity but we can make it work.

quote:

Originally posted by soggy_spinout:

quote:

Originally posted by WARPIG602:
Get an SB brace to make it more manageable and a Hera side folder to keep a small footprint.

One key point of Mossberg's Shockwave submittal for AFT review is that the bird's head grip is to be configured to be 'non-removable'

Anyone know more about the non removable part? When I look at the exploded parts diagram for a shockwave, it appears the birds head grip is held in place by a standard stock bolt with washer.

I bought the 20ga not sure why.....but with #1 loaded I feel confident in its ability to stop someone.

I like the brace idea

I like the birdshead Mossberg, but I'll likely get a braced 870 for the safety location.

And then shoot a 3gun match with it.

If Remington makes a braced 20gauge version I'll be the first in line. I think with a brace and the light weight the 20 would be a ton of fun and not nearly as much punishment as the 12. Next time I'm in the gun shop it's going to be hard to pass if they have a 20ga Mossberg.

I've been looking at the 20ga, such a cool little gun. I just read that Mossberg offers it in 410 also.

quote:

Originally posted by soggy_spinout:

quote:

Originally posted by WARPIG602:
Get an SB brace to make it more manageable and a Hera side folder to keep a small footprint.

Any such modification changes it from 'firearm' to something else (AOW? Pistol?); that would be a definitely a no-no in the eyes of the ATF. One key point of Mossberg's Shockwave submittal for AFT review is that the bird's head grip is to be configured to be 'non-removable' in order to maintain the 'firearm' designation that the Shockwave (and Remington's TAC-14) has. If one submitted that brace config to ATF, I'm sure that they could come back saying that it's a pistol but that it has to be manufactured in that configuration from the beginning, and not a modification using a different classification of weapon as the starting point. At least not without going through the tax stamp process assuming that in their eyes that's even permitted.

Got a citation to back that claim up?

I eagerly await one, if you have one.

Well, I am bored tonight, and decided to look up the letter from ATF, giving an opinion on the classification of the Mossberg "Shockwave."

Here it is:
http://www.mossberg.com/wp-con...-from-ATF-3-2-17.pdf

Care to point out where the ATF letter says what you claim?

I'll give you a hint. It doesn't

How about not making stuff up out of whole cloth next time?

I got one, compared to my SBR it really doesn't there's a certain amount of clumsiness to them that I don't like. Compared to my Mossberg 500 shotgun it is slow and difficult to aim. Too big to carry concealed, slow to deploy, slow to fire twice...

It's great for snakes while you are fishing...

quote:

Originally posted by Sgt Neutron:
If so, it would be interesting to have one as a "Special situation" concealed carry handgun. Andrews custom leather offers the Firepower rig:

Only if you rock the '80s "cop 'stache", pager, and Aviator glasses as well.

quote:

Originally posted by ceptor781:

quote:

Originally posted by soggy_spinout:

quote:

Originally posted by WARPIG602:
Get an SB brace to make it more manageable and a Hera side folder to keep a small footprint.

Any such modification changes it from 'firearm' to something else (AOW? Pistol?); that would be a definitely a no-no in the eyes of the ATF. One key point of Mossberg's Shockwave submittal for AFT review is that the bird's head grip is to be configured to be 'non-removable' in order to maintain the 'firearm' designation that the Shockwave (and Remington's TAC-14) has. If one submitted that brace config to ATF, I'm sure that they could come back saying that it's a pistol but that it has to be manufactured in that configuration from the beginning, and not a modification using a different classification of weapon as the starting point. At least not without going through the tax stamp process assuming that in their eyes that's even permitted.

Nope.

MODEL 870 TAC-14 ARM BRACE

If they can sell it from the factory we can roll our own. Show them how stupid these laws are.

It handles great.

I forgot I posted to this thread.

Unless Remington submitted a new request to ATF, then the following excerpts apply (from the original AFT determination letter to Mossberg, dated March 2, 2017:



etc., etc.,







I had to image clip from the PDF of the letter. My PDF editor would only see this file as 4 pages of images.

The last image I think says it all. Change any of those listed characteristics on the submitted firearm, and ATF will review it to see if their determination is still valid. So since the bird's head grip is on the list, Remington has to go back to ATF to get a further ruling to see if the 'firearm' classification is still valid. To date I haven't heard if they've actually done this. If they have then great, a pistol grip and brace modification is kosher. If not, well...

quote:

Originally posted by WARPIG602:
Get an SB brace to make it more manageable and a Hera side folder to keep a small footprint.

I'd be careful with the side folders at the moment. ATF raided a shop and has been confiscating all their inventory AND side folders previously sold to customers. Seems the agents are changing their long standing interpretation all will nilly like, and now measuring the guns with the stocks folded instead of extended.

As to arm braces, I just bought this. Its a factory configuration sold by Remington.



Crazy good deal here:
https://www.kygunco.com/Product/View?ItemNo=128618

quote:

Originally posted by bubbatime:

quote:

Originally posted by WARPIG602:
Get an SB brace to make it more manageable and a Hera side folder to keep a small footprint.

I'd be careful with the side folders at the moment. ATF raided a shop and has been confiscating all their inventory AND side folders previously sold to customers. Seems the agents are changing their long standing interpretation all will nilly like, and now measuring the guns with the stocks folded instead of extended.

As to arm braces, I just bought this. Its a factory configuration sold by Remington.



Crazy good deal here:
https://www.kygunco.com/Product/View?ItemNo=128618

Have alink for the confiscation or a link whee the ATF changed their mind measuring things?


^^^^^unheard of deal on that one...wish it was a Mossberg

quote:

Originally posted by soggy_spinout:

quote:

Originally posted by ceptor781:

quote:

Originally posted by soggy_spinout:

quote:

Originally posted by WARPIG602:
Get an SB brace to make it more manageable and a Hera side folder to keep a small footprint.

Any such modification changes it from 'firearm' to something else (AOW? Pistol?); that would be a definitely a no-no in the eyes of the ATF. One key point of Mossberg's Shockwave submittal for AFT review is that the bird's head grip is to be configured to be 'non-removable' in order to maintain the 'firearm' designation that the Shockwave (and Remington's TAC-14) has. If one submitted that brace config to ATF, I'm sure that they could come back saying that it's a pistol but that it has to be manufactured in that configuration from the beginning, and not a modification using a different classification of weapon as the starting point. At least not without going through the tax stamp process assuming that in their eyes that's even permitted.

Nope.

MODEL 870 TAC-14 ARM BRACE

If they can sell it from the factory we can roll our own. Show them how stupid these laws are.

It handles great.

I forgot I posted to this thread.

Unless Remington submitted a new request to ATF, then the following excerpts apply (from the original AFT determination letter to Mossberg, dated March 2, 2017:



etc., etc.,



I had to image clip from the PDF of the letter. My PDF editor would only see this file as 4 pages of images.

The last image I think says it all. Change any of those listed characteristics on the submitted firearm, and ATF will review it to see if their determination is still valid. So since the bird's head grip is on the list, Remington has to go back to ATF to get a further ruling to see if the 'firearm' classification is still valid. To date I haven't heard if they've actually done this. If they have then great, a pistol grip and brace modification is kosher. If not, well...

I beleive they specifically named the birdshead grip because thats what made it over 26in long. I beleive the pistol grip conversions are also the same length as the birdshead grip , still adhering to the Pistol Grip Only Firearm which its classifed as. I havent found any letter, but I imagine Remington, Mossberg or SB would have confirmed before inversting the money.

" If, at the factory, a brand-new receiver is fitted with a pistol grip first instead of a shoulder stock, it's considered a Pistol Grip Only (PGO) firearm. If the overall length of that firearm, with the pistol grip and barrel installed, is greater than 26", then the barrel can legally be shorter than 18". In the case of the 14" barrel Mossberg 590 Shockwave, the Raptor bird's head grip gives the gun an overall length of 26.32". That makes it a firearm."



ETA: Upon closer inspection, it doesn't look like the Mesa PG conversion grip is equal in length to the birds head grip, one can only assume at this point the ATF views the Pistol grip, adapter and brace as 1 unit when its clearly comprised of 4 main components. The pistol grip, adpater, brace and tube