I have been interested in a 9mm carbine for quite some time, but I've never really looked seriously at one till now. For the longest time the 9mm AR15 by Colt has been the one I've been interested in, but the newer offerings like the Sig MPX or the CZ Scorpion have made me question my interest in the Colt. I am hoping to save enough and get a carbine later this year but I've been looking to get some opinions from forum members who have one or more of each of these to see which they prefer and why.

Thanks so much in advance.

9mm carbines are all that really interest me these days. There’s so many different ones and so many choices that are all very different from one another.

I’ve had two of the Turkish MP5s, an MPX and lately I’ve been playing with a CMMG Banshee/Guard. I’ve also rented a Scorpion.

Jumping into the deep end first with the “MP5s” and later the MPX really ruined me on the blowback action of most AR pattern PCC and on the Scorpion I rented. That big heavy bolt rocking back and forth is way more noticeable than the roller delay of the MP5 and the gas system of the MPX. The MPX feels like a .22 compared to the Scorpion.

With all that being said, if you like the AR pattern like the Colt, I can’t suggest the CMMG enough. It uses a radially delayed boot to lower the gas pressure before it unlocks, allowing them to use a lighter bolt. It is almost as soft a shooter as the MP guns. I’ve really enjoyed it a lot and the fact that it uses Glock mags adds another benefit to me but they do make a Colt style lower if you’re set on that.

https://cmmginc.com/product/pi...banshee-200-mk9-9mm/

I have a 9MM AR SBR - it's a Colt pattern lower with a Colt 10.5" 9MM Factory upper. I used to have a YHM upper for a couple of years. It has run great with 32/20 Metalform magazines and is a nice gun, but it's not overly quiet suppressed and the blowback operation means there is lots of 'mass' required to keep it in battery and to operate the system, so while they recoil isn't 'heavy', there is lots of movement in the weapon when its firing.

I also have a CZ Scorpion pistol, setup with a 5.5" barrel with 3-lug to suppress. Also a blowback but in general cheaper to buy and outfit (magazines are cheaper) with a thriving aftermarket. Controls are different than an AR, but not hard to use.

They are certainly different but a CZ is going to be a more compact package with folding brace / stock. I like them both for different reason and am glad I have them, but if I had to choose just one I would likely take the Scorpion (which wasn't an option when I made the 9MM AR SBR).

quote:

I can’t suggest the CMMG enough.

I agree with this. If you not set on an AR style, I can personally guarentee you'll love the PSA AKV! It's reliable, accurate & the mags are only $14.00 each! (also compatible with CZ mags). They are selling like hotcakes! Numerous styles to choose from. You will not be disappointed. https://palmettostatearmory.com/ak-47/ak-v.html

Here's mine for a quick peek.

I own a Marlin Camp 9, I like it a lot. I have also shot a genuine Colt 9mm AR and it was a nice shooting gun too......the smaller new ones I haven't shot, but they don't interest me.

I have a CMMG setup to go on a regular AR lower using Endomags.

It works great and isn't clunky/chunky like a direct blowback.

I'm looking forward to doing a Form 1 can for it and then it will be what I REALLY wanted.

Mine hasn't missed a lick yet, and surprisingly accurate.

quote:

Originally posted by Delta-3:

quote:

I can’t suggest the CMMG enough.

I agree with this. If you not set on an AR style, I can personally guarentee you'll love the PSA AKV! It's reliable, accurate & the mags are only $14.00 each! (also compatible with CZ mags). They are selling like hotcakes! Numerous styles to choose from. You will not be disappointed. https://palmettostatearmory.com/ak-47/ak-v.html

Here's mine for a quick peek.

I shot a PSA AKV at the Industry Choice Awards evaluations.

It was SWEET! That thing was the unheralded star of the PCC stable.

Like gibby29 above these have been my addiction for awhile. I started out with the colt and then added to the collection. You really have to outline a bit more what criteria are your primary ones like price, mag type and cost, aftermarket support, use, etc. Some things to consider.
1.Given the caliber and the fact that you don't need a 16" barrel for 9mm, you might want to get a braced pistol and not a carbine. Of course if the ATF changes their position that has a risk, but I think at this point the cat is truly out of the bag.
2. A genuine colt will not be available as a pistol. But you can SBR one like Rhinowso. The colt magazine situation is such (metalform mags) that it would be the least desirable of the magazine options to me if you want a bunch of mags since they are the most expensive of the easily available choices (exclude the MPX in that). But I've thousands and thousands of rounds with a colt 6951 and it just runs. Completely sorted as delivered. And in the AR form factor you can easily change it to be what you want.
3. Many like the cmmg as the locking system mitigates somewhat the blowback operation of the colt. You still get mostly AR form factor, but you are stuck with CMMG for most of the core barrel bolt parts. I have one of these in glock mag lower form and it has been completely reliable. Big plus is glock mags, if you have them are usable in both the carbine and a glock pistol. The larger capacity ones aren't really cheaper than the metalform colt mags, but they are everywhere. The endomag offers the opportunity to run with a lower you have, but I don't like them. You can equally well build a glock mag lower on a traditional Colt style blowback upper and solve part of the issues of the metalform mag situaion.
4. Sig MPX is very nice, well built and designed, mitigates the blowback situation with gas operation. Expensive and mags are truly expensive. Fixing the trigger adds to the cost. Since there is no buffer tube the options on stock/brace are more plentiful. I really like the MPX but I have learned my lesson with SIG and I'm not getting too attached to it as sooner or later they will screw up the parts situation.
5. CZ Scorpion. Cheap initially, mags are cheap. pure blowback. Good aftermarket support but needs some work to make it usable out of the box for almost everyone.
6. MP5 and clones. Again the real deal HK will be serious money, but the PTR and clones aren't bad. Roller locked, soft shooting. An actual HK takes some work to get an optic mounted but the clones come with a rail. Slapping the bolt release on an MP5 is a joy unto itself. But they absolutely suck if you want to run one for competition as reloads are beyond belief slow.
7. B&T. Now into real money. Exceptional construction etc. designed to replace the MP5 and won the army contract for that. out of the box you get almost everything you would want. Can get a glock lower to mitigate the proprietary mag. My favorite, but wouldn't recommend it for most.
I have a bunch more that I can discuss if you want but they are more oddball than the above which are now pretty mainstream.
Hope that helps.

I have several thousand rounds on my MP5, HK de-milled rebuild. Runs great, no problems. Shot friends 9mm PCC's mentioned above except the B&T. None of them compare to the MP5's lack of movement and soft shooting. AR15 9mm and CZ suffer greatly in comparison.

What I don't like about MP5 is the trigger, no lock back on empty mag and it's not really set up well for red dots. Recently put B&T mount/Trijicon MRO on mine, it's not ideal. I'm considering cutting off the front sight and removing the rear sight.

This has my interest. https://angstadtarms.com/mdp9/. Glock mag compatible AR lower (triggers/grips/lock back...) and basically a MP5 upper. Hopefully one of the gun shop/ranges on the Front Range will have one to rent when available.

^^^^^^^^^^

That Angstadt Arms looks like a Stribog which has been rumored to be coming in a roller lock version in its third gen. Aside from the lack of Glock mag compatibility, I’d probably get the Stribog first. Every one I’ve handled looked great.

I built my first 9mm AR back in 2010 and, apart from having to replace the bolt catch every couple thousand rounds or so (they get battered pretty hard), it's been very reliable.



Having said that, compared to current offerings it's like comparing a Volkswagen to a Porsche. The home-brewed AR is a rattle trap compared to my B&T GHM9, which feels like a Swiss watch. It's just very solid and precise. Nothing like the Spikes/DDLES AR-15. The only place where it falls short is the trigger...which feels like hot ass. (Not in a good way.) This seems to be endemic of all the B&T's I've shot.



The B&T TP9 is also hoot, but it has it's shortcomings as well: The charging handle is flimsy, the trigger is atrociously bad, it lacks a 9:00 picatinny rail making the 3:00 rail useless if you SBR it and attach the folding stock, the picatinny rails aren't quite MIL-STD-1913 (they're close, but I have a couple LaRue mounts that just won't tighten down enough to compensate), and you only get ONE magazine for your $2000+ purchase. I've replaced the trigger on mine with the trigger bow from Custom Smith Mfg. and also have their side-charging upper. It's an improvement.

Having said that...it's a giggle to shoot and everyone who tries it immediately falls in love.

offgrid not sure if yours is a pistol or SBR, but I use the Spuhr buffer tube mount and it gets things in the right place that running an MRO in a claw mount seem pretty natural.

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:
offgrid not sure if yours is a pistol or SBR, but I use the Spuhr buffer tube mount and it gets things in the right place that running an MRO in a claw mount seem pretty natural.

Picture, thanks.

I have one of the early RRA LAR-9 carbines, the one with the dedicated lower that takes Colt or converted Uzi magazines. It's always fed and shot fine with converted Uzi mags so I've haven't tried a Colt one. I never really liked the look of the barrel just sticking out there with the short carbine handguards.



So, since there's no gas system, I installed a set screw FSB, different furniture, a BUIS and Dissipator-ized it.

I’ve shot a full auto MP5 several times plus a full auto MPX. I own a SBR Scorpion, and have shot a Cx4 Storm and Hi-Point carbine several times. Without a question, the MP5 is the smoothest shooting of the group. That being said, for about the cost of a HK/Zenith MP5, I can buy a CZ Scorpion, 922r and SBR it and put a Franklin Armory binary trigger in it. You also have a lot of aftermarket support for the CZ. I have to admit I’m interested in the B&T APC9 Pro with a GLOCK magazine well. But, for the price, it is hard to beat the CZ.

Many moons ago before the brace was really a thing I built a 9mm AR SBR using a mag block for Colt pattern mags. Glock mag ARs really weren’t a thing yet either.
Shot it that way for quite some time and it was nice. Then the brace thing really ramped up and bought a dedicated colt pattern lower and an SB PDW brace and slapped that upper on the new lower. Runs very nice suppressed and I use Metalform/PSA magazines.

I am building a 10mm AR as we speak just waiting on my barrel.

The old SBR lower is getting a 10.5” .350 Legend up just for fun.

The next full gun purchase I make will be the PSA AKV. I was looking at the Stribog but $15 mags and the AKV being made in the states takes that battle.

I don’t really find the hard hit of the 9mm direct blow back ARs that bad we’ll see if I say the same for the 10mm.

I don’t really think you can go wrong with either.
The PSA AKV and Stribog are likely the best bang for the buck. Especially if you really want a folding compact gun.

Nice thing about the AR is you can buy parts slowly spreading out the cost and build it more to suit what you want as you go.
Granted PSA has a ton of configurations so you can probably get pretty close.
I am a Triangular folder kind of guy. I have ALG triggers in a number of my ARs so that will likely be the trigger I get too.

Thank you all for the responses and especially for the pics!

I really should explain in more detail what I want the gun to do and my interests in what I want it to do.

My experience is limited with 9mm carbines. I had briefly an RRA 9mm ar years ago and was very underwhelmed with its performance and reliability. It's what turned me off from RRA as a company. Perhaps others have had better success but the fact that the upper and lower receivers needed to be "fitted" to work, the bold would seize after 5-6 rounds even while well lubed. I sent it back and was told that it was fine. I got rid of it as soon as possible to a friend who likes to tinker with his guns at a loss. I had the chance to shoot a couple of the Colt variants including a SMG and they ran like a top.

1) The reason I wanted a 9mm is two fold. One is that 9mm is cheaper than 5.56. That is a big one for me. Cheaper ammo means more range time. Also, I think it would be a fun plinker as well.

2) The consideration for a Colt pattern 9mm AR is that I am already familiar with the AR15 operating system.

3) Aftermarket and factory support are contributing factors. I don't want to be looking far and wide for parts and magazines. From what I see the MPX is like a Cadillac vs the CZ, but I see CZ mags for sale everywhere and I can't seem to find a single mag for the Sig anywhere. I know that the Colt pattern carbines will take slightly modified Uzi mags, Metalform and factory mags as well so they can be found. Of course these are a bit more costly than the CZ's, but they're out there.

4) As to the HK pattern carbine. It deserves its own bullet point. There are parts out there. Mags are pricey, but out there. I know the SP5 or MP5 pistol will be completely reliable which is good. But at over $2000 before getting extra mags and any consideration for a "brace" it's definitely an investment to take seriously.

5) Final point. Pistols with a brace. I am fine with this. Despite the arbitrary rules and decisions from the Feds, I think it would be safe to get one. Benefits would be that as they are smaller they are easy to maneuver inside the home and honestly, they will look and function more closely to the way they were designed.

Thanks again for all of the input. The experience of this community is really helping me to come to a decision.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: DeputyCG,

Your assumption about 9mm versus 5.56 on walls is probably flawed. You can find a lot of research on this.
Given what you have said I think you will be exceedingly happy with a glock mag lower ar9. Mags are cheap and everywhere. Parts are available from any number of vendors and with a little respect for some minor differences interchange. AR format controls and most parts. Easy to maintain and modify.
A good one will "run like a top".
Just my thoughts.

hrcjon, thank you for your thoughts on the penetration issue. I have always been of the "common wisdom" category with respect to this issue. Its amazing what a quick google search and a few phone calls to the SWAT guys I know to show me how wrong I was. I will consider the Glock lower, but would still like to hear other opinions.

If you like the AR pattern and are interested in ammo cost and range time, have you considered a S&W M&P 15-22? Mine is completely reliable, has fully functioning AR controls and magazines are cheap. It's not a defensive weapon but it sounds like you have an AR15 to handle that.