the SS can be had with a TB also, and its a matte not polished ss. I have that model also in .300, it's a tack driver.....

quote:

Originally posted by Les007:
The quick eyeball comparison between the 5R 2nd gen and milspec are the 2nd gen is silencer ready and has a cerakote finish while the milspec does not state it can use a silencer and it comes in a polished stainless finish. Both have a 24" barrel option.

Definitely start with a non-magnum caliber. 308 has been the starting caliber standard for decades -- it still works, but as a new shooter to this game you should consider 6.5 Creedmoor. The 6.5 has advantages of less recoil, flatter bullet path, lower wind deflection, and better ability to shoot at long distances. The 308 has advantages of cheaper ammo, greater ammo selection, and longer barrel life. Search forums (including here) to go over the ongoing debate. The "long distance rifle discussion" in this section of Sigforum is worth some of your time.

FWIW, I have both 6.5 and 308 rifles of almost exactly the same size, dimension, and feel. I compete with the 6.5, I practice with the 308. Although I like my 308, I cannot begin to match the real-world performance of my 6.5 with my 308. Overall accuracy of both rifles is quite similar. The 6.5's lower recoil and better flight ballistics make it the better target rifle.

In addition to Remington 700 rifles, look at what other shooters are purchasing. Tikka, Ruger, Bergara come to mind.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:

quote:

Originally posted by Les007:
The quick eyeball comparison between the 5R 2nd gen and milspec are the 2nd gen is silencer ready and has a cerakote finish while the milspec does not state it can use a silencer and it comes in a polished stainless finish. Both have a 24" barrel option.

Definitely start with a non-magnum caliber. 308 has been the starting caliber standard for decades -- it still works, but as a new shooter to this game you should consider 6.5 Creedmoor. The 6.5 has advantages of less recoil, flatter bullet path, lower wind deflection, and better ability to shoot at long distances. The 308 has advantages of cheaper ammo, greater ammo selection, and longer barrel life. Search forums (including here) to go over the ongoing debate. The "long distance rifle discussion" in this section of Sigforum is worth some of your time.

FWIW, I have both 6.5 and 308 rifles of almost exactly the same size, dimension, and feel. I compete with the 6.5, I practice with the 308. Although I like my 308, I cannot begin to match the real-world performance of my 6.5 with my 308. Overall accuracy of both rifles is quite similar. The 6.5's lower recoil and better flight ballistics make it the better target rifle.

In addition to Remington 700 rifles, look at what other shooters are purchasing. Tikka, Ruger, Bergara come to mind.

Thank you fritz and to everyone else; you've all been great with answering my questions. Much appreciated, and Happy New Years.

quote:

Originally posted by Les007:
....Much appreciated, and Happy New Years.

Happy New Year to you, too. It's probably best for you to start a new thread on your subject, but here's a quick comparison or two on 6.5CM vs 308.

First, let's assume a 500 yard 2 MOA (10" square) target, with 5,000' Density Altitude -- maybe atmospheric conditions for you on a hot summer's day. Using my rifles' data, for factory Hornady 140 ELD-M ammo and Federal GMM 175 ammo.
In order to hit the 10" target I have to estimate wind speed within 8 mph on my 6.5CM, but this is reduced to 6 mph on my 308.

Let's assume the 500 yard target isn't actually at 500 yards, but I have my scope's elevation set on 500 yards. If the target is between 464 and 536 yards with my 6.5CM, I will hit it. But the distance window shrinks to 473-527 yards with the 308.

Next, on to 800 yards with a 2 MOA (16" square) target. Required wind estimation is 5 mph with the 6.5CM, but only 3 mph with the 308. As for distance issues, the window is 772-828 yards for the 6.5CM, but only 780-815 yards for the 308.

These differences in windage and elevation may not seem all that much, but they make a difference when scores count.

Loaded factory ammo cost:
6.5CM Hornady 140 ELD-M costs about $22-23 per box of twenty rounds.

308 Federal GMM 175 is quite low at Palmetto right now -- $17 per box. Expect $18-19 per box in non-panic times with some patience.
Hornady 168 Amax Black is currently around $20-21 per box.
Hornady 168 ELD-M is currently around $24-25 per box.

Barrel life:
I pulled my first 6.5CM barrel at 3230 rounds. It still shot quite well out to 500 yards, but my next match would have targets out to 1800 yards. It appears that most anal-retentive-accuracy competitors pull their 6.5 barrels in the 3,000 to 4,000 round ballpark.

My original 308 barrel now is a touch over 4800 rounds, and it still shoots well. Based on other types of competition, this barrel's accuracy will likely no longer meet my expectations by 6,000 rounds or so. Which means it could last quite awhile longer, or start shooting wonky next time out. Note that when a stainless steel barrel's accuracy goes south, the change is quickly noticeable.

projected recoil for mid-weight rifles, with normal target loads:

3-4 foot pounds for 223
13-14 foot pounds for 6.5 Creedmoor
17-18 foot pounds for 308
25-26 foot pounds for 300 Win Mag

Suppressors reduce recoil by 40-50%.
The best muzzle brakes reduce recoil by 60-70%.