I had 2 that I was going to build up, but went into a holding pattern because they were supposedly going to be banned and forced to be turned into NFA items.

Is this still true? Did this die?

There was a thread about it a while ago but I can't find it.

Thanks.

I found this thread with the last post in September https://sigforum.com/eve/forum...935/m/4990065494/p/1

Everything I've read is that the ATF is going to release the "rules" in late December, effective for April 2023.

There are different thoughts of what these rules will be (total ban, grandfather clause, waive SBR tax) but no clear cut guidance yet.

I know GOA is waiting for the published record and will file a lawsuit against, the courts seem favorable to rule against the ATF now so this could be a good thing to push back on agencies "creating law".

Glad you asked. I have kinda been half wondering.

Worst case would give me an excuse to SBR my MPX I guess. Only thing I've got with a brace on it.

Screw that. Take it to SCOTUS where it'll be shot down. The ATF doesn't have the authority to make law.

and how many years later do you expect that to happen. They haven't sorted out the bump stock situation yet and that's literally the same issue. I wouldn't count on the courts to save you. SBR everything you actually need seriously. Now before eF1 collapses.

I put off looking for a Scorpion to see how this shakes out. Might go ahead & look for one after the 1st.

quote:

Originally posted by P250UA5:
I put off looking for a Scorpion to see how this shakes out. Might go ahead & look for one after the 1st.

Nonsense, just get one now, you wont regret it.

For those haven't been following the various online discussions:

- an ATF document was uncovered and reported over the Summer that indicated they were requesting funds to implement a PSB ban criteria and SBR amnesty program.

- there is at least one knowledgeable pro-2A lawyer that has put forth the idea that, if an SBR amnesty registration is implementet that, with the vagueness and arbitrary criteria put out previously, it could be a legal trap used by the ATF to ensnare at least some PSB owners applying for amnesty. But, he is waiting to see what the released rules will be.

In the past several years, the ATF has used the tactic of releasing these controversial proposed rule changes just before the Christmas holidays, in an effort to avoid gun owners noticing the proposals or being able to communicate and organize opposition to them during the Public Comments period.

I just caught an interview with the GOA director, and he stated that, based on an inside source in the ATF, the final rule proposal has been sent to the White House and is waiting on approval.

I'm guessing the ATF's PSB rule changes will come out next week.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Modern Day Savage,

quote:

Originally posted by Flash-LB:
Screw that. Take it to SCOTUS where it'll be shot down. The ATF doesn't have the authority to make law.

100% correct but the ATF will send it straight to the President's desk where he will sign it. Guaranteed.
I still won't register it, pay for an "amnesty stamp" or get rid of it.

I saw this today on my Tube Of You feed…this pair probably doesn’t have any better idea of what the AFT is going to shove down the pike …time will tell…

https://youtu.be/_3cNERCzyp4

quote:

Originally posted by joatmonv:

quote:

Originally posted by Flash-LB:
Screw that. Take it to SCOTUS where it'll be shot down. The ATF doesn't have the authority to make law.

100% correct but the ATF will send it straight to the President's desk where he will sign it. Guaranteed.
I still won't register it, pay for an "amnesty stamp" or get rid of it.

That's fine. Biden doesn't have the authority to make law either. It still goes to SCOTUS.

quote:

Originally posted by Flash-LB:

quote:

Originally posted by joatmonv:

quote:

Originally posted by Flash-LB:
Screw that. Take it to SCOTUS where it'll be shot down. The ATF doesn't have the authority to make law.

100% correct but the ATF will send it straight to the President's desk where he will sign it. Guaranteed.
I still won't register it, pay for an "amnesty stamp" or get rid of it.

That's fine. Biden doesn't have the authority to make law either. It still goes to SCOTUS.

I hope it does but I'm also thinking executive order.
The man hates firearms with a passion and I wouldn't put it past him to do this.

I get lost on much of the latest commentary. First if the ATF determines something is a stock that's not new law. A stocked short barreled rifle is an SBR and has been for nearly 90y now. The technology branch decides what stuff is all the time. IN this case they are reversing a decision they made, which again from a history perspective they have done many, many times. SO they decide its a stock, its a stock. I don't get the concept of its making law. To strike it down at the SC is literally to gut the NFA (which may be a possibility, but a huge long shot IMO). To me the big practical issue is if they make them SBR's how millions and millions of guns are going to be dealt with. If its Form 1 them then how on earth are they going to deal with that volume? I don't get the legal trap idea either. What's the trap. You form 1 it and then its legal. They can't charge you with possessing it and being illegal prior to their rule change that's a basic principle on our legal system of no ex post facto laws.

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:
I get lost on much of the latest commentary. First if the ATF determines something is a stock that's not new law. A stocked short barreled rifle is an SBR and has been for nearly 90y now. The technology branch decides what stuff is all the time. IN this case they are reversing a decision they made, which again from a history perspective they have done many, many times. SO they decide its a stock, its a stock. I don't get the concept of its making law. To strike it down at the SC is literally to gut the NFA (which may be a possibility, but a huge long shot IMO). To me the big practical issue is if they make them SBR's how millions and millions of guns are going to be dealt with. If its Form 1 them then how on earth are they going to deal with that volume? I don't get the legal trap idea either. What's the trap. You form 1 it and then its legal. They can't charge you with possessing it and being illegal prior to their rule change that's a basic principle on our legal system of no ex post facto laws.

Me personally, I see filling out the form, taking pictures, etc as a registry.
Braces are legal just like bump stocks were at one time.
They were fine with it used as a stock, then they weren't, then they were and now finally they're not and want people to register them.
I don't own any NFA objects and I probably never will. I'll keep it that way with my stock, I mean brace.

You don't have to "see" NFA paperwork and filing as a registry. It IS A registry. Its commonly referred to as a registry and it acts completely as a registry (minor exception they don't always maintain it properly so its on you go maintain your own evidence). That said if the ATF deems braces stocks then attached to that short barreled gun they are SBR's and if not registered illegal ones at that. Sure you can keep them hidden and never use them, but in the end what's the point of that? If you going to possess an illegal SBR why not just go for the correct stuff and put a decent stock on it. Same legal risk.

It's a huge mess. Millions of these have been sold in the last couple years and I bet a fair percentage of those that have bought them have no idea about this proposed ruling and how it could affect them especially the part about becoming an instant felon facing hard prison time if they do not partake in the "amnesty period" registration. Hopefully the lawsuits filed will result in an almost immediate injunction. The recent EPA case at SCOTUS and the ruling seems could be good enough reason to do so though I am not a lawyer.

Washington Gun Law, Armed Attorneys, and Guns and Gadgets all have frequent videos on YT about this and other Second Amendmendment news.

https://www.nssf.org/articles/...om-recent-atf-rules/

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:
You don't have to "see" NFA paperwork and filing as a registry. It IS A registry. Its commonly referred to as a registry and it acts completely as a registry (minor exception they don't always maintain it properly so its on you go maintain your own evidence). That said if the ATF deems braces stocks then attached to that short barreled gun they are SBR's and if not registered illegal ones at that. Sure you can keep them hidden and never use them, but in the end what's the point of that? If you going to possess an illegal SBR why not just go for the correct stuff and put a decent stock on it. Same legal risk.

You're right Jon but I don't hide mine. Plenty of times I've taken it in the back acreage and to my friend's range. Luckily, all are like minded like me. No one is gonna say anything because they too have "things" that aren't registered.
I'll likely become a felon of the ATF but I simply don't care. Until a warrant is seen by me, what's mine is mine.

At this point there is nothing to hide on this brace issue. While I see that there is potential that the ATF ruling on what is a receiver will likely go down as that directly conflicts with the actual statue, what is a stock is fully in the ATF control.
I just don't get why most won't just efile an F1 and be done with the issue. But that's just me.

^^^^^not everyone wants to set up a trust, set up an eForms account, get prints and photos to submit, engrave their information, etc etc. Some have gone through the F1 process and don’t mind, others don’t want to and don’t want to mark up multi-thousand dollar guns.

Food for thought!