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| Member |
If you were to shoot a five-shot group with 55gr FMJ bullets out of your typical 16" AR15 at 300yd, how much would your group open up, if shooting in a downpour, versus a clear day? Or, if you have a 1.5MOA gun, what kind of performance do you get from the same gun in a rainstorm? 2MOA; 3MOA? | ||
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| Freethinker |
According to this good article, it would be rare for a bullet to hit a raindrop and have its accuracy affected, but not impossible: https://www.gunsandammo.com/ed...et-trajectory/372027 According to the article, a 125 grain Hornady GMX bullet fired from a 308 Winchester cartridge was deflected 4 inches low at 50 yards, and it was estimated the deflection would have been about 30 inches at 100 yards. Although I am not certain, I would expect a much lighter bullet, albeit at a higher velocity, to be deflected even more.This message has been edited. Last edited by: sigfreund, ► 6.4/93.6 ___________ “We are Americans …. Together we have resisted the trap of appeasement, cynicism, and isolation that gives temptation to tyrants.” — George H. W. Bush | |||
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| Member |
It's interesting to me that the author finds it so unlikely that a round would hit a drop. The kind of rain coming down outside, when I created this thread, was such that I saw no way a bullet would not hit a drop, probably even multiple drops, especially when fired from anything considered mid range or beyond. I guess it would take shooting a group in the downpour, to figure it out; lucky for me, the rain has stopped.  | |||
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| Freethinker |
It would be interesting to see the results of a rigorous experiment in steady heavy rain. ► 6.4/93.6 ___________ “We are Americans …. Together we have resisted the trap of appeasement, cynicism, and isolation that gives temptation to tyrants.” — George H. W. Bush | |||
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| Staring back from the abyss  |
Anecdotal, but I've hit exactly where I've aimed at 200ish yards during a gully-washer. No question the bullet hit multiple raindrops...as well as it's target. ________________________________________________________ "Great danger lies in the notion that we can reason with evil." Doug Patton. | |||
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| Member |
It seems we have conflicting reports here. The author of the linked article, based on his fabricated test conditions and a friend's anecdotal evidence, concluded that a rain drop's effect on a bullet is not insignificant, but the chance of a bullet hitting a drop in the first place is slim. Gustofer related his own bit of anecdotal evidence that would indicate the contrary. I don't know what defines "gully washer", but I'd imagine it's a torrential situation; Gustofer saw no deviation in bullet flight at 200m in these extreme conditions. As Sigfreund said, it'd take someone shooting critically in real rain conditions, which is tough to schedule. Perhaps someone like Fritz, who has undoubtedly shot at medium to long range in extreme conditions at a match of sorts, has good info to offer. | |||
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| Member |
I briefly scanned this thread on my phone earlier. I thought there were other comments...maybe they were deleted. Yeah, I've shot in rain in competition. I won't do it when the decision is mine for routine practice. A light mist or a few sprinkles is acceptable. Hard rain is unpleasant. Hard rain with high winds and cold temperatures sucks canal water. Light sprinkles or a light mist can be a rifle shooter's friend for estimating wind drift. Keep you glasses and scope dry, and vision is good. In the right conditions, bullet trace stands out like a beacon in the night. Heavy rain often results in wet glasses and wet ocular lens. When this occurs, shooting capabilities go south in a hurry. Objective field analysis of hit vs. miss from bullet-to-rain collision will be sketchy. The worst rain I've shot in was a PRS-type match in Nebraska a few ago. Anyone who attended that match will never forget it. Going from memory on the next-to-last stage: - Three square plates of 10-12" at distances of around 400 yards. About 50 yards between each plate. Target locations at roughly my 11, 12, and 1 o'clock. - Must hit to advance. Shoot at left target, then center, then right, then right again, then center, then left. - Unlimited shots with a 90 second maximum time. This was a tie breaker stage, with a lowest time for all 6 hits breaking ties from the rest of the match. - Starting position standing, rifle in hand pointed down range, mag in, chamber empty, bolt back. Move (aka run) forward to the shooting line, flop down to prone position, begin shooting. Many of us belly flopped onto the pasture land, then slid the last couple of feet into position. - Raining hard, 20-30 mph wind from my 2 o'clock. - I guestimated wind holds well, center punching targets 1, 2, and 3 with first round hits. Wind picked up on shot #4, rain came in and hit me in the face, required three shots of increasing wind holds to hit plate #4. I held too much wind for plate #5, corrected and hit with the second round. Needed only 1 round for plate #6. All my misses were wind hold errors, as I could see the mud splashes from the bullets -- dead center with the plate. My hits were center punches on elevation. - 6.5 Creedmoor with 140 grain Amax. Final stage of the day, was called a buffalo hunt. The first 2 buffalo-shaped small plates at 300-400 yard were shot from a seated position, with sticks to support the fore end of the gun. By that time the sticks were broken. Wind was more than 30 mph from my left. Glasses and both scope lenses were dripping in water. I recall second round hits for both targets -- even in a seated position, I was swaying in the wind. 3rd target was at a little over 600 yards, shot prone, with an old saddle for the only gun support. Rain was falling in sheets, sharply angled down to the right. Missed my first shot a little to the right, with the spotter confirming the mud splash that I saw. Increased my wind hold and hit the plate with shot #2. Elevation was good on both shots. I elected not to shoot at the full-sized buffalo plate at 900-ish yards -- it was just too hard to see. I haven't experienced the high level of bullet deflection in siegfreund's post above. But I don't care to repeat the conditions for more statistically significant data. | |||
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| Member |
I have no scientific data on the topic, but I have many decades of hunting experience. Rain and low hanging clouds are your friend on duck hunts. In over 50 years of waterfowl hunting with a 12 gauge using anything from BB to 4 shot, I’ve missed many a bird. I’m pretty sure that weather was not to blame. Shotguns kill just fine in the rain from my experience. Same thing for hunting deer and hogs. If I missed, I consider it was my fault. In my experience high wind, especially if you’re shooting with dramatic elevation changes is a way bigger challenge with a rifle. I’m talking about shooting down a 25+% decline into a 30-35 MPH wind at 275 yards. In these conditions I saw variances over normal bullet drop of as much as a couple of feet with a 270 Win. This was spotting for an experienced hunter shooting from a supported position. We were using a Leupold TBR rangefinder so we had accurate angle to target and scope adjustments. The shot aimed at an Axis Buck hit the dirt below and just past the animal. Rifle had been zeroed earlier on the hunt. The wind was so bad I don’t think the animal ever heard the rifle. We didn’t try another shot even though the buck just stood there. + | |||
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| Member |
In my Groundhog (hillbilly term for a Woodchuck) hunting days with a .22O Swift, I would occasionally get caught out in a shower. Under those conditions I could get hits out to 250 yards or so without problem. I have not tried shooting in a downpour. On one occasion, in hot, humid weather I saw the bullets vapor trail when my buddy shot over a soybean field. End of Earth: 2 Miles Upper Peninsula: 4 Miles | |||
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| Member |
There was another post. I don't know why the member opted to remove it; it was relevant, and of the opinion that rain has little effect. | |||
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| You have cow? I lift cow! |
I account for spin drift delineation for each rain drop impact.  Interesting question, I would imagine if it's cats and dogs coming down, and you shoot a 22 300 yards it might not behave exactly as it normally would. Sliding scale on higher powered heavier rounds I would think. Light rain probably wouldn't do much. | |||
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| Member |
5.56, 55gr and 62gr rounds, and 9mm, 115gr and 124gr- rain affects nothing. I shot a ton yesterday morning/afternoon. Glock 43x, 19 & 17, LMT AR, and my shotgun. In the rain and when it was dry. Shot like crap. Rain or shine... ______________________________________________________________________ "When its time to shoot, shoot. Dont talk!" “What the government is good at is collecting taxes, taking away your freedoms and killing people. It’s not good at much else.” —Author Tom Clancy | |||
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| Member |
That was my initial thought. Not just a wee .22 rimfire either. You hear precision shooters splitting hairs about all kinds of factors; it seems to me that a bunch of water in the air between you and the target is a pretty big deal. I wonder if military snipers are trained to deal with it a certain way, considering they are the guys who don't have the choice to cancel the match, if the weather looks bad. Although, fritz' experience is the best thing we've got to draw conclusions from, and he feels the rain wasn't a factor. | |||
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| His diet consists of black coffee, and sarcasm.  |
In heavy, racehorse-on-a-flat-rock rain, I'd think you'd have more trouble seeing the target than with any theoretical, or even real, bullet deflection from hitting the raindrops. Saying the same thing in a different way. | |||
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| Freethinker |
That was one of my thoughts, and I must really wonder how many people have actually ever shot for high accuracy in the conditions laid out in the original post. ► 6.4/93.6 ___________ “We are Americans …. Together we have resisted the trap of appeasement, cynicism, and isolation that gives temptation to tyrants.” — George H. W. Bush | |||
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| Member |
I think the rain would affect the shooter more than the bullet. My rain experience happened several years ago. I was shooting an AK at the range, at 100yds. A torrential rain started. I was under a roof, and stayed dry…and kept shooting. Ended up shooting one of my best ever 100yd AK groups. If you've never had a free lunch, you are'nt trying hard enough | |||
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Member |
If you're talking about the actual science of whether or not bullets are deflected by raindrops, the only real way to tell would be to shoot from a COVERED position on both a normal dry day and a day where it's "raining cats & dogs outside!"... That way you'd take the effects of the rain on the shooter's glasses, scope, etc. out of the equation. Better still would be to shoot from a rifle or barreled action mounted in something like a Ransom Rest or similar taking the human factor completely out of it. You know like an actual controlled experiment.  Mythbusters hasn't done this already?!?. | |||
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Hop head  |
dayum Fritz, that read like it sucked, (but you did good!) I've only shot Service Rifle in the rain, and fortunately from a covered position, however we did have to keep out muzzles out beyond the roof line, I learned where to stand so the front sight was dry (relatively) and the muzzle was not, I doubt the rains made a difference as far as accuracy, but they conditions did make a difference in sight picture, grayer day, (no direct sunlight) and rain hard enough to blur the target just a bit, https://chandlersfirearms.com/chesterfield-armament/ | |||
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