I'm asking for suggestions on shooting rests/types.

Most all my shooting is from a bench. Up till now I have used an Atlas Bi-pod or a stuffed bag under the front stock.
I see shooters use adjustable shooting rests, bi-pods, sleds, sand bags.
I'm able to shoot out to 600 yards at my range.
I don't want to drag a bunch of sand bags with me to the range every time I go, but I also don't want to waste ammo chasing groups on target.
What have you found works great for squeezing the best accuracy from your rifle or hand gun.

I have read that shooting from a sled results in a different POI than when the rifle is fired from a bag rest or bi-pod, is this true?

I have this one from Caldwell. It's vertically adjustable and made from cast iron...it's heavy enough that it doesn't jump around and provides a solid rest off a bench. And it's small enough to fit in my range bag, although all the protruding legs and such make it a little awkward in there. Price isn't too hateful either for what you get.

https://www.amazon.com/Caldwel...id=1675888690&sr=8-2

I often use my range bag as a rest. Works fine. In a pinch, a rolled up jacket can work well too. MTM makes several types of lightweight rifle rests that are easy to carry. As for the sled accuracy question, I cant help.

quote:

Originally posted by armored:
What have you found works great for squeezing the best accuracy from your rifle or hand gun.

I have read that shooting from a sled results in a different POI than when the rifle is fired from a bag rest or bi-pod, is this true?

A sled may produce a slightly different POI than other rest methods. Or it may not.
- The shooter may not have the best fundamentals, and may be placing pressure on the rifle which pushes shots in a certain direction.
- The shooter may not be square behind the rifle, and recoil may drive the shots in a certain direction.
- The sled's pad/support behind the buttstock may not allow the rifle to recoil straight to the rear, which may drive shots in a certain direction.

I'll start with the concept that the purest form of rifle shooting IMO is off-hand standing. Everything after that is some form of artificial support, used to improve accuracy. Slings, bipods, bags, rests -- all are devices to improve upon a human's capabilities. At some point, some will draw a line as to where the shooter is no longer really testing their own marksmanship skills. I absolutely put the massive bench rest guns and their mechanical sled systems in this category. Guys who were raised on sling shooting might say that bipods and bags are crossing the line.

I'm willing to use bipods, because with most of them we must deal with the potential "bipod hop" upon recoil. I'm OK with rear bags if the shooter must squeeze/push/elevate the bag to maintain buttstock height.

I draw the line on equipment when the shooter can walk away from the gun, return later, and the rifle is still has sights on target. Even more so if the shooter can just touch the trigger and not be responsible for controlling recoil. Meaning the rifle is on a sled.

So the question becomes, does one wish to test the raw mechanical accuracy of the rifle without input from the shooter? Or does one wish to develop skills with which to test the accuracy of the shooter/rifle/ammo/sights system?

My best accuracy so far has come from:
- shooting from prone
- shooting from natural dirt -- not off concrete or a smooth rock face
- shooting from ground that allows bipod legs to rest in a slight depression, to allow me to control bipod hop
- using the proper fundamentals to manage breathing, sights, trigger, and recoil
- supporting the front end with a bipod and the rear end with a squeeze bag.
YMMV

I believe that a good rest is essential to achieve proper results when developing or testing a load and when zeroing for precise results, especially for long range shooting. The ballistician Bryan Litz points out that knowing exactly where the gun is zeroed is a fundamental requirement to be able to make adjustments to hit targets at various distances using ballistic calculations.

By “good” rest, I’m referring to something that makes it possible to ensure that the rifle behaves the same way for every shot.

I have the rest pictured below, but I sometimes also use a very old, much simpler rest as well and cannot really tell any significant difference in results. That rest and others like it are designed to be used with rifles having flat forends which is typical of heavy benchrest guns.






https://www.brownells.com/shoo...d57001.aspx?psize=96

The Caldwell rest linked is one option. The larger, heavier, and much more expensive rests do offer certain advantages for getting on target and staying in position. If, however, your rifle can side freely on the rest cradle in recoil, being super heavy isn’t vitally important. There are, however, somewhat heavier rests for somewhat more money that might be a better place to start.

Even using a rest like one of the above, it’s still necessary to understand the importance of a good, consistent technique. Whatever is used at the rear must support the stock consistently as well. That’s also true of one’s cheek position and pressure on the stock. That’s something it took me a long time to realize, and that realization was in no small part due to the posts by some of the precision rifle shooters who are members here.

The front cradle should allow the rifle to slide back freely under recoil, just as it would if we were shooting from an unsupported standing or other position. Some benchrest shooters apply Teflon type tape to their forends to minimize the friction between rifle and rest. When I use my rest with rifles that don’t have nice, flat forends, I use the Sinclair “benchrest adapter” that’s linked below. I attach it to a short Picatinny rail section.

https://www.brownells.com/shoo...d45123.aspx?psize=96

Bipods can be used effectively from a bench, but they are subject to somewhat more inconsistencies than the cradle rests discussed above. The biggest difference I see when using a bipod is how its feet interact with the bench or other shooting surface. Some F-class shooters like large, wide stance bipods with feet that are designed to slide freely under recoil. When shooting from a bench with a bipod, that’s sometimes possible, but it depends on the bench surface and the type of feet on the bipod. Spike feet on a wood or concrete bench probably won’t move much, if any, when the rifle is fired. Rubber feet may move some, depending upon the surface.

Another factor is whether we “load” the bipod, i.e., put forward pressure when shooting. If the feet move on a bench surface and therefore don’t permit much loading pressure, but not on the ground when shooting from the prone, that can affect point of impact. For maximum precision it may be necessary to test our bench results in comparison with our actual shooting positions.

I sometimes use a bipod on a bench when precision or zero testing, but I have less confidence when I do than if I use the true bench rest.

The “sled” type rests that hold the rifle firmly in position, including at the rear, are probably okay if just working on load development, especially with hard-recoiling guns, but I must believe that they aren’t good for zeroing because the gun doesn’t recoil the same as when shooting normally.

Other rests like sandbags, rolled up clothing, etc., are better than nothing, but can suffer from lack of good, firm support, the inability to adjust their height precisely, or both. Nevertheless, a much younger friend of mine gets good results when shooting over a stuffed backpack. When I was involved in four-position smallbore competition 60 years ago, I would have been delighted to have had a pack to support my rifle in the prone position in addition to my tight sling and snug shooting coat. Today, however, just getting into the prone with a bipod and firm rear bag for support is difficult for me. I’ve tried using a pack for prone support, and it was a disaster.

And to emphasize, no artificial mechanical rest will guarantee perfect shooting results. They all require understanding and employing proper techniques to get maximum benefit from them.

If the goal is to hit a 12 inch plate at 100 yards or the vital zone of an elk at 200, then almost any rest will do, and for many shooters no rest at all would be necessary. But if we’re even semiserious about getting good, consistent results with load development or zeroing and accuracy, then we owe it to ourselves and to all the time, money, and effort we put into the other aspects of shooting to use a decent rest that’s suitable for the purpose.

I bought this one off one of the .22 forums. It is a Protector brand, and they also sell nice leather bags or all types. Works well for me.

I don't like shooting from a bench, always seems like I'm having a bad day when I do.
If I'm shooting for groups I prefer prone with a bipod and rear bag.

It's not often that I get to shoot on grass and dirt, which makes loading the bipod not easy.
I picked up a shooting mat from Midway with heavy straps to load a bipod against that works out much better.
I do need a better bi-pod so I went with a Magpul with the arms 17s mount and their new rail grabber, mounts to 1913 or Arca rails.

The Pistol Perch is not my only rest. I have a Wichita XBR-1000 Rifle Rest with Protector regular Owl front, Rabbit Ear with heavy base rear, and elbow brick bags all filled with heavy fine sand from Russ Haydon. I also have a Caldwell Deadshot Front Bag prefilled with ground corn cob granules.

When I used the Pistol Perch, I also used a small light DIY "sock-like" sand filled bag on top of the hand rest platform. Seemed to work quite well for my needs.

Not stable enough for two or three -shot sighting in procedure, which requires is facilitated by "equipment when the shooter can walk away from the gun, return later, and the rifle is still has sights on target," as fritz described.

What I mean, I'm not disciplined/coordinated enough to maintain perfect sight/eye/body/head alignment while adjusting windage and elevation slots or knobs.



https://www.caldwellshooting.c.../110033.html#start=1



Inexpensive, lightweight and portable but that rear adjustable monopod is very wiggly. If Caldwell could re-engineer that assembly to something more stable this would be a winner.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:

I draw the line on equipment when the shooter can walk away from the gun, return later, and the rifle is still has sights on target. Even more so if the shooter can just touch the trigger and not be responsible for controlling recoil. Meaning the rifle is on a sled.

For load development I'd love to use one of those systems. It'd take so much out of the equation. All other use cases, I'm on your side. I got into shooting to develop a skill and have fun. There's no fun if there's no challenge.

Okay, correction. There's fun at first but as you keep going it gets boring and repetitive.

[unenthusiastic face, monotone voice] "Oh, look...I blew out a 0.5" hole the center of the 800 yard target with my 10-shot group. Again. Yay."

Vs.

[excited shrieking] "I ACTUALLY HIT IT! I HIT THE TARGET! My group is shit but I HIT IT!"

The only thing that matched the levels of joy I felt when I saw my first 10-shot group* out of my 6.5 Creedmoor (my first "custom" quality level rifle) was my first group out of the 6 GT*. For years I'd been tricked by my ultra light 308 to think I was just a shit shooter and it was the 6.5 that opened my eyes. That sent me down a rabbit hole and I still haven't come back up for air.

*This group does not include what I used to zero the scope.

quote:

Originally posted by RichardC:
I'm not disciplined/coordinated enough to maintain perfect sight/eye/body/head alignment while adjusting windage and elevation slots or knobs.

Nobody maintains perfect sight alignment all the time while adjusting turrets. This is why most shooters adjust turrets prior to final target acquisition. If the shooter doesn't doesn't dial windage/elevation, then the proper aiming is done via the reticle's subtensions. Christmas tree reticles were designed to help shooters who prefer not dialing.

In PRS-type events, most shooters will dial elevation if they have time. Windage is rarely dialed in precision matches -- it's usually a hold off via the reticle.