I bought about 8,000 Hornady 75gr BTHP's on sale a while ago, so I'll be shooting that.....for the rest of my life.

I load them with 24.8 grains of TAC. They're a bit warmer than factory 5.56 TAP.

Federal 62gr Fusion MSR is a good choice. PSA has had them on sale for $10 a box in the past.

quote:

Originally posted by ohioup:
Federal 62gr Fusion MSR is a good choice. PSA has had them on sale for $10 a box in the past.

Damn, cheapest I found them for was 18.00

quote:

Originally posted by dewhorse:

quote:

Originally posted by Mainspring:
One load to consider is the Barnes TSX 55gr. I'll be honest and say that I don't know all the details on that round. However, it's a solid copper projectile that I've had shoot very accurately out of several different ARs.

I've been using that for all my deer hunting for the past three years and have been extremely impressed with it's effectiveness. I've shot four deer and all have dropped instantly. Damage to the lungs and upper thoracic area has been devastating.

Since it's an all-copper construction, I would think that it would hold up well through glass and car door materials. One of the only downsides can be lack of availability. I keep an eye out for it and will buy a couple boxes whenever I can.

Good real world data.....what length barrel?

thank you

Both 16" (3 deer) and 14.5" (1 deer). All were shot broadside. Three in the chest, one in the neck.

quote:

Originally posted by Mainspring:

quote:

Originally posted by dewhorse:

quote:

Originally posted by Mainspring:
One load to consider is the Barnes TSX 55gr. I'll be honest and say that I don't know all the details on that round. However, it's a solid copper projectile that I've had shoot very accurately out of several different ARs.

I've been using that for all my deer hunting for the past three years and have been extremely impressed with it's effectiveness. I've shot four deer and all have dropped instantly. Damage to the lungs and upper thoracic area has been devastating.

Since it's an all-copper construction, I would think that it would hold up well through glass and car door materials. One of the only downsides can be lack of availability. I keep an eye out for it and will buy a couple boxes whenever I can.

Good real world data.....what length barrel?

thank you

Both 16" (3 deer) and 14.5" (1 deer). All were shot broadside. Three in the chest, one in the neck.

Is this ist?
http://www.munireusa.com/223-r...-tsx-55-gr-20-rd-bx/

Excellent information, tagging this one to read later.

quote:

Originally posted by WARPIG602:

quote:

Originally posted by Mainspring:

quote:

Originally posted by dewhorse:

quote:

Originally posted by Mainspring:
One load to consider is the Barnes TSX 55gr. I'll be honest and say that I don't know all the details on that round. However, it's a solid copper projectile that I've had shoot very accurately out of several different ARs.

I've been using that for all my deer hunting for the past three years and have been extremely impressed with it's effectiveness. I've shot four deer and all have dropped instantly. Damage to the lungs and upper thoracic area has been devastating.

Since it's an all-copper construction, I would think that it would hold up well through glass and car door materials. One of the only downsides can be lack of availability. I keep an eye out for it and will buy a couple boxes whenever I can.

Good real world data.....what length barrel?

thank you

Both 16" (3 deer) and 14.5" (1 deer). All were shot broadside. Three in the chest, one in the neck.

Is this ist?
http://www.munireusa.com/223-r...-tsx-55-gr-20-rd-bx/

Yep

My go to HD setup for my rifle is a 20 round mag loaded with Hornady TAP.

I am very interested in seeing how this performs.

IMI Razor Core 5.56

Thanks for the tech info.

Ok, so is the Gold Dot 64gr basically the same as the fusion?
The Federal Tactical Bonded 62 gr I way different than the 62 gr fusion bonded bullet.

I'll post up some pics comparing the two in a bit.

quote:

Originally posted by Mainspring:

quote:

Originally posted by WARPIG602:

quote:

Originally posted by Mainspring:

quote:

Originally posted by dewhorse:

quote:

Originally posted by Mainspring:
One load to consider is the Barnes TSX 55gr. I'll be honest and say that I don't know all the details on that round. However, it's a solid copper projectile that I've had shoot very accurately out of several different ARs.

I've been using that for all my deer hunting for the past three years and have been extremely impressed with it's effectiveness. I've shot four deer and all have dropped instantly. Damage to the lungs and upper thoracic area has been devastating.

Since it's an all-copper construction, I would think that it would hold up well through glass and car door materials. One of the only downsides can be lack of availability. I keep an eye out for it and will buy a couple boxes whenever I can.

Good real world data.....what length barrel?

thank you

Both 16" (3 deer) and 14.5" (1 deer). All were shot broadside. Three in the chest, one in the neck.

Is this ist?
http://www.munireusa.com/223-r...-tsx-55-gr-20-rd-bx/

Yep

Barnes currently has their spring rebate going on for purchases made until the end of May. I took advantage of their Black Friday double rebate to load up on some 300 BO

http://www.barnesbullets.com/rebates/

quote:

Originally posted by smithnsig:

Ok, so is the Gold Dot 64gr basically the same as the fusion?
The Federal Tactical Bonded 62 gr I way different than the 62 gr fusion bonded bullet.

64 grain Gold Dot






62 grain Gold Dot/Fusion





62 grain TBBC

Speer LE 64 Grain Gold Dot: Velocity, Accuracy and Terminal Ballistics






Speer has expanded its line of Gold Dot ammunition to include rifle ammunition in 223 Remington. The ammunition examined for this post is loaded with a 64 grain bonded soft point bullet that has less exposed lead at the meplat than Federal’s 62 grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw bullet that is used in their LE223T2 load.

The 64 grain Gold Dot bullet has a boat-tail and a cannelure. This load is charged with a ball powder that according to Speer is a “flash suppressed propellant.” The primers are sealed and crimped in place, however, there is no sealant at the case mouth.















The 64 grain Gold Dot bullet has a nominal length of 0.825” and a specific gravity of 10.0. A barrel with a 1:9” twist should stabilize it quite well.







From ATK’s website:

“Like their handgun counterparts, the Gold Dot rifle bullets are constructed using Gold Dot technology. The process of joining the jacket and core one molecule at a time eliminates the potential for the leading cause of bullet failure—jacket/core separation. It also ensures impressive weight retention through barriers as tough as auto-glass.”







The 64 grain Gold Dot load was chronographed from a 20” Colt M16A2 barrel, a 16” Colt light-weight barrel and a 14.5” Colt M4A1 barrel. All of the barrels have chrome lining, NATO chambers and 1:7” twists. 10-shot strings of the load were fired over an Oehler 35-P chronograph with “proof screen” technology. All velocities listed are muzzle velocities as calculated from the instrumental velocities using Oehler’s Ballistic Explorer software program.















Accuracy testing was conducted following my usual protocol of firing 10-shot groups from a concrete bench at a distance of 100 yards using my 24” Krieger barreled AR-15. This barrel has a 1:7.7” twist. The free-float rail of the rifle rested in a Sinclair Windage Benchrest and the PRS stock was stabilized in a Protektor bunny-ear rear bag. Wind conditions were monitored using a Wind Probe. Sighting was performed using a Leupold Competition Series scope with a mirage shade. The scope was adjusted to be parallax free at 100 yards.







Prior to testing the 64 grain Gold Dot load, I fired a 10-shot control group using hand-loaded 69 grain Sierra MatchKings. That group had an extreme spread of 0.86”. Three 10-shot groups of the Speer LE 64 grain Gold Dots fired in a row had extreme spreads that measured:

1.11”
0.91”
1.30”

for a 10-shot average extreme spread of 1.12”! I over-layed those three groups on each other using RSI Shooting Lab to form a 30-shot composite group. The composite group had a mean radius of 0.33”.

For comparison, previous testing of the Black Hills blue box 75 grain MHP load fired from the same set-up as above produced three 10-shot groups at 100 yards that had an average extreme spread of 1.14” and a mean radius of 0.37” for the 30-shot composite group.







…..

[U]Velocity Update for the 64 grain Gold Dot [/U]

Manufacturers typically use bolt-action “test barrels” to obtain their advertised velocities for their ammunition. These test barrels are usually 24” long and often have minimum spec SAAMI chambers. These factors combine to give ammunition higher advertised velocities than the velocities that we actually obtain from our AR-15s. Also, due to its gas operating system, the AR-15 looses 20 fps or more of velocity compared to an equivalent barrel without a gas system.


Sierra test barrels


Shooting Times 2009


As an example, Hornady advertises the velocity of their 55 grain TAP load as 3240 fps. When fired from an AR-15 with a 24” Krieger barrel with a 5.56 Match Chamber (and of course a gas operating system) the muzzle velocity of the 55 grain TAP load was 3167 fps, for a difference of 73 fps from the advertised velocity.

Speer’s website reports the muzzle velocity of the 64 grain Gold Dot load as 3000 fps. When fired from my 24” Krieger barreled AR-15, the 64 grain Gold Dot load had a muzzle velocity of 2912 fps, for a difference of 88 fps from the advertised velocity.


....


Terminal Ballistic Properties of the 64 grain Gold Dot

Thanks to the efforts of Dr. G.K. Roberts, we now have some excellent answers to the questions of terminal ballistics pertaining to the Speer 64 grain Gold Dot LE load. The results shown below indicate the penetration of this load in bare ballistic gelatin as well as after having passed through auto-glass. Auto (safety) glass is one of the most difficult barriers (of those commonly tested) for 5.56mm/.223 Remington loads to penetrate and still perform adequately in ballistic gelatin.











Comparisons.













…..



[U]Notes on Data from the ATK Workshops [/U]

The ATK Workshops have a history of failing to follow the proper protocols for terminal ballistic testing and of publishing misleading and fabricated data. As a simple example, the established method of determining the expanded diameter of a recovered bullet, is to measure the widest and narrowest portions “at the leading edge of the deformed bullet” and then average those two measurements to obtain the recovered diameter.

Witnesses to some of the ATK Workshops have reported that the deformed bullets were measured at the widest portion of the bullet only and then that measurement only was recorded as the recovered diameter, thus giving exaggerated results.





Courtesy of Dr. G.K. Roberts



[U]Further Inconsistences in the Test Procedures and Reported Data from the ATK Workshops. [/U]

As I’ve previously posted, the ATK Wound Ballistic Workshop at Fort Collins on 6-26-08 has a major credibility issue regarding the 64 grain Gold Dot data. For this workshop, the stated test weapon was a 16” barreled RRA LAR-15. The Workshop reported a velocity of 2575 fps for the 64 grain Gold Dot fired from said 16” barrel.

Now, look at the data from the ATK Wound Ballistic Workshop at Aurora on 6-24-08. This Workshop reports the velocity of the 64 grain Gold Dot as exactly 2575 fps, when fired from a (Colt) Commando with an 11” barrel. It would be next to impossible for two different barrels with a difference in length of 5” to produce the exact same velocity with the 64 grain Gold Dot. It's obvious that the velocity data for the 64 grain Gold Dot from one or both of the Workshops is false.

Since the Workshops failed to accurately determine/record something as basic as the velocity for the 64 grain Gold Dot, I question the validity of any of the Workshops' reported data for the 64 Grain Dot; especially something as crucial as the penetration depth. An individual who was present at an ATK Workship stated this about the ballistic gel blocks that were used at the ATK Workshop:

"the first gelatin block was calibrated initially at the beginning but the other blocks sat outside until they were shot and were not calibrated or the temp checked prior to use. I'm fairly certain that they were warmer than they should have been and without calibration the data was suspect, at best."



[U]More Fabricated Data from the ATK Wound Ballistic Workshop [/U]


The ATK Wound Ballistic Workshops continue to demonstrate their lack of credibility. In their latest report entitled “Butte – Montana 5-27-09” they include more fabricated data for the Speer 64 grain Gold Dot.

Speer advertises a muzzle velocity of 3000 fps for the 64 grain Gold Dot load when fired from a 24” barrel. During my own chronographing of the 64 grain Gold Dot load, I obtained a muzzle velocity of 2912 fps when fired from a 24” Krieger barreled AR-15.

Using a 16” barreled M4, the ATK workshop claims to have obtained a muzzle velocity of 3000 fps for the 64 grain Gold Dot load. Using a barrel that is 8 INCHES SHORTER, the ATK workshop claims to have obtained the exact same muzzle velocity as advertised from a 24” barrel. It’s quite obvious that the ATK workshop never even chronographed the 64 grain Gold Dot load and then falsified their report using the advertised muzzle velocity. The irresponsible practices of the ATK workshops and their failures to adhere to established protocols for terminal ballistic testing renders all of their data suspect.







….

Federal 62 Grain Fusion vs Federal 62 Grain Fusion MSR vs Speer LE 62 Grain Gold Dot





The muzzle velocities shown in the tables below were obtained back-to-back during the same chronograph session using recent lots of all three of the Fusion/Gold Dot loads chrongographed.

[U]Atmospheric Conditions[/U]

Temperature: 73 degrees F (plus or minus one degree)
Barometric Pressure: 29.68 inches of Hg
Humidity: 62%
Altitude: 950 feet above sea level



Muzzle velocities from a 20” Colt M16A2 barrel with a NATO chamber, chrome lining and a 1:7” twist.





Muzzle velocities from a 14.5 Noveske N4 light barrel with a NATO chamber, chrome lining and a 1:7’ twist.





10-shot groups fired from one of my precision AR-15s with a Lothar-Walther barrel with a 223 Wylde chamber and a 1:8” twist. The groups were fired from the bench at a distance of 100 yards with the same sight settings on the scope for each of the three groups.















....

Observations on an Atypical Lot of Federal LE223T3









The Federal 223 Remington Tactical 62 grain ammunition is loaded with a bonded soft-point bullet with a cannelure; the 62 grain TBBC. (All the better to shoot your auto-glass with, my dear!) There is a scant amount of lacquer sealant at the case mouth (mostly in the cannelure.) The primers are also sealed and crimped. As you can see from the picture above, the components come loaded in a shiny nickel plated Lake City case.


The 62 grain TBBC has a solid copper base that comprises approximately one third of the length of the bullet.











When chronographed from a 20” Colt M16A2 barrel over an Oehler 35-P chronograph, this particular lot of LE223T3 produced a muzzle velocity of 2831 PFS. This muzzle velocity is approximately 140 FPS slower than the average of previous lots of LE223T3 that I’ve chrongraphed from the same barrel.


Previously to conducting accuracy testing of this particular lot of LE223T3, the single smallest 10-shot group of LE223T3 that I was able to obtain shooting from the bench at a distance of 100 yards was 2.13”.







This particular lot of LE223T3 was accuracy (technically, precision) tested from one of my semi-automatic AR-15s with a 20” Lothar-Walther barrel that has a 223 Wylde chamber and a 1:8” twist.

Three 10-shot groups fired in a row from the bench at 100 yards had the following extreme spreads:

0.93”
1.10”
0.87”

for an average 10-shot group extreme spread of 0.97”. I over-layed the three 10-shot groups on each other using RSI Shooting Lab to form a 30-shot composite group. The mean radius of the 30-shot composite group is 0.32”.


The smallest 10-shot group . . .





The 30-shot composite group . . .





....

Wow....thank you for the data dump!

Streichers has several brands in stock, these are 223:

55gr Gold Dot $14/bx (price ends Feb 28)
62gr Gold Dot $18/bx
64gr Gold Dot $18/bx

https://www.streichers.com/sho...on/rifle-ammo/223556

I just got an email that shipping is free if you spend over $129.

I love XM193 for range and recreational shooting, it's basically all I use. It groups well, and is extremely reliable stuff, plus inexpensive when on sale. But my mags for home defense are loaded with 62 gr. Hornady TAP. Great round, not cheap enough to plink with though.

What would you guys still use for stock piling? Im leaning towards 855 for penetration. I want to make sure it will work well on automotive glass and doors. But I like the fragmentation of the 193. And 193 is cheaper.