When I say M4, you know the image it conjures. 14.5, FSB, waffle stock, carbine gas system.

Many dudes have dumped the FSB guns for sleeker, sexier mid length, 13 inch free float type guns.

Does the traditional M4 still have a place in your line up?

I actually have almost everything I need to build a pretty decent M4A1 clone except for a loose flat top upper. I should get after that. It's all take off parts, and pretty decent stuff. Pin and weld 14.5" barrel, actual USGI contract A2 grip, M4 stock, removable carry handle, and quad rail, not commercial stuff. PSA blem M4A1 marked lower ready to put it all on.

It's been long enough since it was "cool," then "outdated," now I think we're coming back to it being "cool" again. Crazy to think it's a 25 year old configuration and thus, retro. I think it would be fun to do a 2 gun match with it and the 92FS.

If the bullets exit the muzzle with accuracy and haste then how is an M4 outdated? Or a K98, or SMLE, Garand?

My Ruger AR-556 is pretty much M4 spec. I am quite happy with it. Best of all, it can hold its own, accuracy wise, with tricked out ARs that cost way more than the Ruger. So, I don't see it as outdated.

I don't even own a flat top AR and I have over 10.

I dont know if it's outdated, but I can tell you it aint the first gun I'm grabbing for fun or other.

Consider the basic action design is now 70 or so years old. It has stood the test of time, like the 1911 and a S&W revolver.

“Modern” permutations of the same basic action design having been going strong for a long time. But little tweaks that ( some times in perception rather than actual practical use) add utility don’t alter the fundamental design.

Here is an interesting point:
A lot of foreign militaries have adopted other designs ( L85 series, famas, tavor, Aug among others ) that are more modern or futuristic. However most of those militaries special operations elements who have latitude to adopt or use something else, are using some variant of the M4

I have my Bushmaster XM-15E2S and have been very happy with it. I took the carry handle/irons off and mounted a Primary Arms prism sight on it and it does all I ask of it. No regrets.

I own 3 LE6920s which I have squirreled away for the kids and SHTF emergencies. They all have Delta rings and FSBs and the only things I’ve done to them is to add Aimpoint Pro’s and go all Magpul for the furniture. Outdated or not, I feel pretty confident they’d do their job if pressed into civilian service.

I never was a fan of the M4, feels like I'm all scrunched up using it.
I like the A1 or A2 with a full sized handguard much better.
Now days I don't see for shit so I use magnified optics of some sort or another and don't shoot with irons at all anymore so don't have any installed so no need for a FSB.

I do like shorter AR's though and have a 14.5" mid gas barrel with a 12.5" handguard that gives me better support hand reach.

I wonder when exactly the longer free float handguard with mid length gas system configuration became the standard. I want to say it was Troy that made it common place, before BCM cemented it.

A colt m4 or m4a1 with a good optic, KAC RAS, light, laser, and sling is a capable rifle. I have a few and while they are not my mainline rifles, I still enjoy them. One of them was my very first Colt 6920 purchased immediately after the ban sunset in 2004. It has a 7” Larue free float quad rail, waffle stock, Dieter CQD vfg, Troy rear buis, an Aimpoint ML2 in an early Larue mount, and KAC QD sling mounts. Another is a colt 6933 SBR with KAC RAS and iron sights. Love my bone stock Colt 6520s and 6920s too. And I want to do a 10.3” with a c7 upper, skinny 6-hole CAR handguards.

My primary lineup all have longer rails over low pro gas locks, but I still enjoy the KISS carbines and would feel plenty well armed if I had to use any in defense.

quote:

Originally posted by JoshNC:
And I want to do a 10.3” with a c7 upper, skinny 6-hole CAR handguards.

I have a 10.3 A1 and an 11.5 C7.

The 11.5 C7 is better.

My favorite of them all is the 16" dissipator.

I have a free-floated M400 for work, 16" with flip-up irons and mid-length gas. My personal rifle is an M4-style flat top carbine with a fixed FSB and delta-ring. Both have red dots...Romeo5 on the work gun and an AimPoint PRO on my personal.

Honestly I've never done anything with that M400 that I couldn't do just as easily with my own rifle. I'm not saying that would be the case for everybody, but for me and my skillset and my application it is.

If I was benching it the M400 would probably be more accurate. If I was wanting to hang a bunch of stuff off the handguard having the longer free-float tube would provide more options. But as a "patrol" or "home defense" rifle with just a light and a red dot, both do the same thing equally well.

A pinned on A2 front sight/gas block is bullet proof. I have less confidence in gas blocks that are held on with screws. Mostly mental gymnastics but still...

quote:

Originally posted by bubbatime:
A pinned on A2 front sight/gas block is bullet proof. I have less confidence in gas blocks that are held on with screws. Mostly mental gymnastics but still...

Ah, yes, I can see how using tiny unthreaded metal cylinders inserted through the gas block into small cutouts in the barrel would be much more confidence-inspiring than using tiny threaded metal cylinders inserted through the gas block into small cutouts in the barrel...

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
When I say M4, you know the image it conjures. 14.5, FSB, waffle stock, carbine gas system.

Many dudes have dumped the FSB guns for sleeker, sexier mid length, 13 inch free float type guns.

Does the traditional M4 still have a place in your line up?

It's not in my lineup, but properly outfitted it is still a more than capable rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Mars_Attacks:
I don't even own a flat top AR and I have over 10.

I love the classics and retro vibes. But I can't personally avoid the advantages of optics.

quote:

Originally posted by IndianaBoy:
I love the classics and retro vibes. But I can't personally avoid the advantages of optics.

Glass breaks and batteries are dead.

It's why I don't have a flat top.

I am considering building a 20" varmint with a flat top for my thermal. However, it won't be a first line defense weapon, it would be a specialized sneaky bastard weapon. You know, for "coyotes".

Colt LE9620.
It can hit a scarecrow made of ballistic gel, holding a phonebook with a paperplate stuck on the cover at 1/2 a miles.

The gun can outshoot me and will be "relevant" longer after I am not.

Heck, I still solder copper pipe instead of stick and push fittings. Hell, my cars are older than most of the whippersnappers on the board.

Get off my lawn!