quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
...and for showing how things can go awry.

Given the number of rounds on this barrel, I could have easily dismissed the high round as a "called flyer”. Many rifle owners would do just that, even while using barrels that aren’t so long in the tooth. In one advanced rifle course I attended, the director stated there will be no “fliers” that week. Students will own every shot on every target. If we pull the trigger, it’s our shot. No mulligans, no do-overs, no dry runs, no excuses.

My high impact on that last target was a "called mistake". I knew that it was a sloppy trigger pull. I pretty much knew the impact would be high, and about .3 second later I saw the impact on the plate. Dipshit.

A number of factors affect accuracy. Foremost is the consistency of the rifle-ammo-sights-shooter system. "All day long" and "when I do my part" in the same sentence implies that rifle-ammo-sights are good, shooter not so much. Sometimes the accuracy discussions leave out:
- round count -- we're not robots, unless we're shooting from a lead sled. Maybe. More shots leads to greater chances for stray shots.
- distance to target -- increasing the distance tends to increase stray shots. This comes from mechanical and environmental factors.
- stability of the shooting position -- It should be obvious that a bench with heavy bags offers more stability than standing off-hand.
But if the "system" is consistent, results can be accurate and relatively repeatable.

All of the following are from prone, bipod, and rear bag. Rock River AR15 with FGMM 69. Not on the clock, but shooting as my breathing cycle dictated decent stability. The barrel was hot, the suppressor was really hot, and the handguard was noticeably warm. Trying to get very good accuracy -- but it's late in the day, I've already felled and bucked 3 beetle kill pine trees, and going home for dinner is sounding really good.

305 yards, 5 rounds, 1.5" vertical dispersion. Just under .5 MOA vertical. Cold clean bore. Breezes of about 5-8 mph, mainly from 12 o'clock, but fishtailing from 11 to 1 o'clock.





355 yards, 5 rounds, 2.25" vertical. About .6 MOA vertical. Same wind conditions as the 305 yard target, above.





418 yards, 6 rounds, 2.5" vertical. A touch over .6 MOA vertical. Winds seem to be picking up just a touch.





477 yards, 11 rounds, 4.5" vertical. About .9 MOA vertical. Winds are likely closer to 6-10 mph, fishtailing from 11 to 1 o'clock. But still able to keep all rounds on target. Mirage on this hot day is getting more noticeable.





553 yards, 6 rounds, 4.75" vertical. About .8 MOA vertical. Similar conditions as the 477 yard target, above.




I also had an IPSC plate at 707 yards, but it didn't go well. Being a dipshit, I grabbed two cases of FGMM 69 for the day, but didn't realize that they were from different lot numbers. So...the next box had a different MV, and my elevation dope wasn't so bueno. Windspeed increased, and I was missing left-right-up-down. Mirage sucked, and I couldn't see misses in the damp prairie grass. Oh well, there will be other days.

*****
Bottom line -- when the system is repeatable, the results are repeatable.
And don't say "all day long".

Thanks, fritz; another inspiring demonstration of the possible.

Next day, similar theme, feeling the effects of working trees on a hot day. Rock River AR15 with FGMM 69. Left the targets up overnight, and of course, the cattle decided to "investigate", which means targets had to be re-set.

477 yards, prone, 7 rounds, 4" vertical dispersion. About .8 MOA vertical. Cold clean bore. Breezes for all targets today were around 5 mph, fishtailing from 11-1 o'clock.




553 yards, prone, 9 rounds, 5" vertical, a touch under .9 MOA vertical.




660 yards, prone, 11 rounds, 7.25" vertical, a touch over 1 MOA vertical. Mirage wasn't fun, and the smaller impact splashes didn't help in spotting my impacts. It sure seems like a long time for bullet flight at this distance.





305 yards, one bag between spool & rifle, Lewinski kneeling -- see my pics on the top of page 4 of this thread for what the shooting position looks like. 13 rounds, 4.5" vertical, around 1.4 MOA vertical. I just kept banging away, because this time the position felt good. I felt like I was controlling the rifle fairly well, keeping sights on target. Rounds seemed to hit the plate really quickly, as compared to the prone 660 yards target above. But I'm still struggling with POI with an AR while shooting from a barrier. I decreased the dialed elevation by 1 MOA for these rounds from the spool, as compared to my regular dope for 305 yards from prone. That's my nemesis -- throwing rounds high.

My old Tikka T3 Tactical in 223 Remington came through in an excellent manner today: 10 shots of IMI 77 grain OTM, LR, Mod 1, from the bench, bipod support, 100 yards. Group measured 0.504" center to center, or about 0.48 MOA.

This was after putting the barreled action in a new MDT ACC Premier Gen2 chassis and mounting a different 4.5-28×52mm scope. The black line from the bottom hole extended to “sighter.” That hole was made by firing at a completely different target while initially zeroing the newly-mounted scope; the 10 shots formed the one connected hole.





The chassis replaced a KRG unit I’ve had for a long time. There was nothing really wrong with the KRG, but it always seemed somewhat cheap. The 10-shot group was the best I recall having fired with that rifle and ammunition combination. The last (not pictured) group of the day was five shots that measured 0.516", ~0.49 MOA. I find it hard to believe that the new chassis made any difference in precision, but the scope might have helped. The old scope was a 3-18×44mm with a somewhat coarse reticle; the higher power and finer reticle of the replacement made precise aiming easier.

I don’t consider the IMI ammunition to be a true match load and I get some strange flyers on occasion, but it performed well this time.

Awesome shooting, Fritz and Sigfreund.

I think I am going to try what I'll call the "Mars Attacks 14-shot offhand challenge". In his dissipator thread, he posted an image of a fifty yard, standing, 14-shot, iron sight group. It's damn impressive. He didn't share any precise measurements, but it looks pretty stinkin' good. If I had to guess, I'd say it's a 3MOA group.

Pasture weeds suck. The P.O.S. gumweed has resisted our herbicide mix, so I ended up pulling/digging a few acres. My arm, hand, and back muscles are a mess. But moving on...

The RR's barrel develops a carbon ring in the throat with every shooting session. This time the wet patches slid through the throat quite easily after the carbon ring was gone. Uncertain what that means. Anyway, with the same batch of FGMM 69, my first group of prone at 305 yards didn't go well. Winds from my 3 o'clock, rapidly varying from almost nothing to gusts of close to 15 mph. I aimed a little right of the 3 o'clock point, using the prior week's elevation dope, and missed the plate at 5 o'clock. Two more shots with slightly less wind holds, and both of those shots miss at 5 o'clock. I warmed up with a handful of dry fires, so I thought my technique was OK... ?

I added 1 MOA to the scope's elevation, held on plate, a little left of the 3 o'clock point, and the impact is almost on the 12 o'clock point. Then 2 more impacts just below that. Then 4 more impacts near the center waterline of the plate. Oh boy, this is not a good start. 4.75" vertical dispersion, just under 1.5 MOA. So much for accurate cold, clean bore results. Or maybe so much for cold shooter results. Or maybe the barrel really is toast.




On to messing around. One of the hardest stages I've shot required shooting from a rope looped between two 4x4 posts. The match was in Albuquerque, on a horribly windy weekend. I performed similarly poorly in somewhat similar stages in later years. So....why not try it again. But this time from wobbly T-posts. Well, I sucked again, big time. The tripod is for photo purposes only, as I shot from reverse kneeling. I couldn't hit shit at 305 yards on 12" plates. Missing up, down, right, left. I'm definitely not ready for prime time with this shooting position.

Since I'm a roll, time to try more shooting positions which I've sucked at. One match required shooting from a 6x6 wood fence post. We could place the gun against the post for support, but nothing could touch the barbed wire on the post. I tried getting my sling to work, but wasted time and shot like dog poop.

Here we go, the carrying sling wrapped around a 4x4. Kinda hard to do a selfie on this and keep the sling tight. So I used a climbing sling to keep the rifle sling tight during the photo. I shot from reverse kneeling, with left hand keeping the rifle sling tight.




Better this time. 340 yards, 5.25 inches vertical, 13 rounds, just under 1.5 MOA of vertical. The position just felt relatively solid.




On to the next suck position -- a loop of cord on a power pole, held up by a screw I placed in the pole. The tripod is for photo purposes only, as I shot from reverse kneeling.




It took me awhile to settle into a good position and begin shooting. I could feel the wind moving me, producing a lot of lateral wobble in my scope. I just concentrated on making good trigger presses, while dealing with the lateral gun movement. 325 yards, 5.25 inches of vertical dispersion, 14 rounds, just over 1.5 MOA of vertical.



****
I didn't have time to revisit prone shooting. Maybe the barrel now needs a bit of carbon fouling to shoot well. Maybe I just started the day shooting poorly. I'll try again, sometime after Labor Day. But I will definitely confirm that I have a new gas block and gas tube to go with the replacement barrel that I have in the basement.

The RR's barrel didn't have much of a carbon ring donut with the last cleaning, and I didn't feel much resistance in the throat with patches. I wonder if a rough flake in the throat broke loose.

FGMM 69, 305 yards, prone, winds 0-10 mph from 1 o'clock. I warmed up with 6 or 7 dry fires, and my fundamentals seemed solid.
POA was generally around the 3 o'clock point. First shot was center of target - cold clean bore. Then shots #2-12 all ended up lower. The barrel has lost MV again, which I think goes hand in hand with barrel cleaning. Total vertical dispersion of 6.25 inches, but 3.75 inches for shots 2-12. 2.1 MOA vertical for all shots, 1.2 MOA vertical for shots 2-12. IMO this barrel is definitely showing its age, and its about where I retired my other 2 AR15 barrels.




I didn't feel like shooting anymore of my supply of quality FGMM 69. I switched to Federal Law Enforcement Tactical Tip TMK 69 -- which in theory is essentially FGMM with a 69 TMK bullet. I bought a fair amount years ago when FGMM was hard to find. Turns out that the Tactical Tip ammo produces uninspiring accuracy in all my rifles. Like a box of chocolates -- never know if a group will be 1 MOA, 2 MOA, or 3 MOA. IMO Federal didn't design the Tipped Matching bullets very well -- great BCs, but they only play well with a few barrels. Anyway, with 200-ish rounds left, I reserved it for barrier practice when a barrel is nearing end of life. I will now burn it up in the RR, along with the barrel.

305 yards prone, same conditions as with FGMM 69, 12 rounds. First round was the low center hit, then the others were higher. The low first round could be either ammo switch or barrel issues. 7.75 inches total vertical dispersion, 4-7/8" vertical for rounds 2-12. 2.4 MOA total, 1.5 MOA without the first shot. Better than I expected for this ammo.



I shot another plate with 13 rounds of the Tactical Tip. 6.25" vertical, with no real odd ball impacts -- 2 MOA.
The tactical tip ammo had a lot of horizontal dispersion, especially given that wind conditions were relatively calm and relatively easy to call.

Late in the day, I packed up and went home. For the next 200 rounds I plan to use the tactical tip ammo from various positions, but with the targets a little closer. I will concentrate on technique and noticing how I break the shots. I won't be so concerned with POI, as the ammo won't be the best indicator of my fundamentals.

I picked up a gas tube & gas block over Labor Day, so I now have the parts to retire this barrel. Maybe I'll have it up and running this fall.

10 rounds - 10/22 bull barrel @75yds CCI SV.

From a rest.

Wow!

Ruger barrel?

That’s impressive. What barrel?
And I assume “SV” refers to Standard Velocity—?

Standard velocity

Ruger barrel

quote:

Originally posted by TomS:
10 rounds - 10/22 bull barrel @75yds CCI SV.

That's great shooting with any rifle. Even more so with a semi-auto.

Time to give the RR AR15 a rest. Moving on to my GAP 308 bolt action, which also has a barrel that could go tits up any day. I planned to shoot on Saturday, with its forecasted minimal winds. But sheepdip forgot the suppressor, so it became a tree felling day. Sunday brought winds -- no dice for cutting down trees, but "perfect" conditions for shooting. One of my rifle instructors said that windy days reveal who are here to shoot, and who are here to surf the web with their cell phones. Winds were gusty from my 3-4 o'clock, and seemingly feeling like down drafts.

GA Precision Crusader -- 308 Win, Defiance action, Bartlein SS barrel, McMillan stock, TBAC can, Nightforce. My gunsmith wants me to keep shooting it, so he can see his first shot out 308 barrel. He says the throat looks pretty ugly.

458 yards prone, 11 of 11 hits, 3.5" vertical dispersion -- about 3/4 MOA vertical. JBM says a 10mph crosswind produces wind drift of 2.5 MOA. Actual drifts were in the 2-4 MOA range, or 8-16mph. I held on the 3 o'clock point to about 2 MOA right of the point. Cold clean bore.



I was actually pleased with the results. It's been awhile since I been on this rifle -- definitely not in 2024. Average impacts were a little higher than old dope tables, so I figured the barrel is still doing just fine.

On to 633 yards prone, 10 of 12 hits -- the misses were from incorrect wind calls, with the dirt impacts appearing to be at the same elevation on the target. 8 inch vertical dispersion, so only about 1.2 MOA vertical. Hits were made with wind holds of 4-6 MOA, which translate to wind speeds of 11-17 mph. Now it's getting spicey, as I never held the crosshairs on the target.



I wasn't as happy with the results on this target. I felt my fundaments were fine, but the dope wasn't as consistent. Uncertain if this is barrel age or wind effects.

On to 753 yards prone, 10 hits from 13 shots. Again the misses were from wind call errors, with elevation seeming to be consistent with hits. 9.75 inch vertical, or around 1-1/4 MOA. Hits were made with wind holds of 5-9 MOA, which translates to wind of 11-20 mph. I'm definitely holding right of the target here, as the plate is just a little more than 2 MOA wide.



My first shot was the impact even with the orange dot, and a few inches to the left of it. I'm thinking all is good, results on this target are going to be spectacular. Then rounds started falling low. My fundamentals were good and the suppressor was on tight. Hmmmm. Maybe downward wind effects, but with wind from the right and a right twist barrel, the bullet should climb a bit. Could be ammo inconsistency. Or quite possibly the muzzle velocity is decreasing a bit from the throat's cracking.

On to 859 yards prone, 12 hits from 20 shots. Ugh. Mongo struggling with wind. Mirage was getting tough, and I measured wind calls from the right edge of the plate, rather than from the center orange dot. At this distance the full-sized IPSC is 2 MOA wide. I had hits with holds of 7-12 MOA, or slightly more than 13-23 mph wind. Misses occurred with wind holds of 6-15 MOA -- 11 to 28 mph crosswinds. Dirt impacts seemed to be in the same general elevation as hits on target, but with that many misses it's hard to be certain. Vertical variation of 11.25 inches, which is around 1-1/4 MOA.

It seems to take a long time for the bullet to reach the steel. It takes even more time to hear the "tinks" of the impacts. Impacts are definitely lower than dope.

I still had a little time left in the day, along with one clean target at around 450 yards. What the heck, I'll try from the branch positions I pictured in page 4 of this thread. Ruh-roh, not so bueno in the wind. The wind moved the first tree at least 10 MOA in all directions, and it moved me a few more MOA from my standing position. 3 or 4 shots, all missing the 12" plate by a country mile.

On the second tree. It is a little bigger, but I'm still seeing 8-ish wind movement in the tree, plus lateral wind movement on me. 3 embarrassingly bad misses.

Not giving up yet, I jam the bag between the double trunks and shoot from Lewinski kneeling. The tree is still moving 2-3 MOA from this position, and the wind is moving me a few MOA. I was hitting the 12" plate, but not consistently, and with a lot of dispersion in all directions.

Shooting in substantial winds aren't for those who need an ego boost.

I'll start posting my range reports here.

Although posted already in the rifle section, here's my 600 yard groups from vintage rifle match a week and a half ago. 1.89 MOA for 10 rounds with a cold barrel, no sighters.



Second group wasn't so hot but I really stacked those last 5 or 6 rounds on top of eachother (in the 9-ring unfortunately).




Here's my SAGE EBR at 200 yards, prone off a bag with a service rifle scope. 1.17 MOA after sighters.




We're supposed to head out again on Wednesday for a 300 and 600 yard shoot. I'll let you know how it goes.

Tony.