Another subcompact 9mm?

The market is completely over-saturated with them.

People bitch when a company makes something new and they bitch when companies don’t.

It’s almost like some people just love to bitch.

IMO I welcome new products and especially new players into a market. If it sucks I simply don’t buy it. If I don’t need it I don’t buy it. But more competition is a good thing. It keeps everybody working hard.

This kinda reminds me of the old thread about Sig announcing the P-320 as SHOT Show.

Interesting "Me Too" design...looks sorta like everything else on the market now.
6 lb trigger?
Striker needs to be removed to take down the pistol for routine cleaning?
Will be interesting to see online reviews after putting rounds downrange....and long-term reliability.
Sig was "challenged" with the initial release of the P365...is Mossberg better at developing new products?
No word on barrel metallurgy or anything special about it at all.
"See Thru Plastic" magazines....nice to see how many rounds are there, but plastic doesn't last as long or take as much use/abuse as most metal mags.

I think unless it's a major bargain, there are too many other tried & trued alternatives.
And S&W online dealers still offer original, base-line 9MM Shields for a little more than $250.

But it still looks like a nice start for Mossberg.

Clicked onto see their other new models while there, clutched at my heart when I saw the 590A1 Retrograde with walnut for $905.

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People bitch when a company makes something new and they bitch when companies don’t.

It’s almost like some people just love to bitch.

IMO I welcome new products and especially new players into a market. If it sucks I simply don’t buy it. If I don’t need it I don’t buy it. But more competition is a good thing. It keeps everybody working hard.

Ain't this the truth!! I'm glad to see another choice in the market and very happy to finally see a striker pistol with a cross-bolt safety. Unless there's something wrong with these (ahem ... like a certain other sub-compact we know of ... ) I would like to get one.

Edited to add: there is a version with a reversible cross-bolt safety on Mossy’s website

This message has been edited. Last edited by: GeoJelly,

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Originally posted by GeoJelly:

quote:

People bitch when a company makes something new and they bitch when companies don’t.

It’s almost like some people just love to bitch.

IMO I welcome new products and especially new players into a market. If it sucks I simply don’t buy it. If I don’t need it I don’t buy it. But more competition is a good thing. It keeps everybody working hard.

Ain't this the truth!! I'm glad to see another choice in the market and very happy to finally see a striker pistol with a cross-bolt safety. Unless there's something wrong with these (ahem ... like a certain other sub-compact we know of ... ) I would like to get one.

Cross bolt safety? I’m not seeing any external safety except for the trigger tab.

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Clear-Count magazines feature easy-to-remove floor plates, and high-visibility followers made out of a lubricious polymer compound.

I suppose in a way it is self-lubricating, but seriously, they need a different word.

More competition is better. Remember when the PPS first came out for $700?

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People bitch when a company makes something new and they bitch when companies don’t.

It’s almost like some people just love to bitch.

IMO I welcome new products and especially new players into a market. If it sucks I simply don’t buy it. If I don’t need it I don’t buy it. But more competition is a good thing. It keeps everybody working hard.

You are in violation of the new gun social media rules, you must either swoon over the product, or, question the intelligence of company management decision process, decree you'll never buy one, toss out revelations on the demise of the company, of course all the while having never seen, touched, fired or handled the product.

Good for Mossberg, they are a quality company, if they did their job it's good to have more competition.

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This is aimed at the P365 market, their website even states the sight is compatible with a Sig #8.

Although I heard they didn't include a primer striker drag with enhanced barrel peening option.

Seems like a difficult way to break into a market with so many already name familiar brands. A smarter move would have been to design something different to what is already out there in droves.

Innovation would have been a smarter move.

I don't know. The market is so saturated now that this thing runs the risk of disappearing in the crowd.

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So mossberg makes pistols now..

Again.

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Originally posted by Dawes:
I don't know. The market is so saturated now that this thing runs the risk of disappearing in the crowd.

That's how I read it. Despite that ancient pistol from the early part of last century, this one has no track record. It comes with no heritage, other than some pinched bits from Glock and SIG Sauer. It's going to have to be cheap to stand a chance. Many subcomp single stack wonder 9s that are at the $300 and less bracket, literally all with lengthy experience. We've had a couple of folk already asking about it, so there's already some intrigue...but only if the price is right.

It looks well thought out, and is very nicely de-horned, particluarly for a gun at it's price point.

Hopefully, they have worked decent quality into it and it will be a good seller for them.

Competition is good.

Of course it comes with no heritage...it’s new. How are they supposed to get “heritage” in the pistol market if they don’t start making pistols?

I don’t know anything about the gun market from a manufacturers standpoint but I do work for a manufacturer in another industry and it’s not uncommon in our industry for new players to come to market with a copy of an existing product that is selling very well. It’s safe. It’s familiar and it’s gets them in front of buyers without having to also sell a totally new concept.

Mossberg might not care if you want to buy this gun. It might not be projected to sell well at all. Mossberg might not make a profit on this gun but now they have a pistol that they can hand people. They will get feedback on the sights, the grip, the trigger, the size, the weight, the magazine, the capacity and every other little thing about the gun. And if they are smart they will take all of that info and then decide if they can build a new product that does make them a profit.

Maybe I’m wrong. As I said I don’t know shit about gun manufacturing and I don’t know shit about Mossberg. But the most successful companies that I’ve seen break into my industry didn’t innovate much early on. They basically copied a successful product and used it to get in front of users to get as much feedback as possible. Then they went to work implementing that. Manufacturers have to think about the long game as much as the short one. Losing money on one product can be acceptable if the goal is to establish yourself in a new market for long term success. Mossberg shouldn’t be thinking about how this one pistol will sell against other pistols in the next ten months, as some of you are focused on. They should be thinking about how their company will do as a pistol manufacturer over the next ten years.

I just don't see anything there that would make me look twice.
There are already many others, well established in that market, that have a proven performance record, service record, equal or more rounds, and better priced.

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Mossberg shouldn’t be thinking about how this one pistol will sell against other pistols in the next ten months, as some of you are focused on. They should be thinking about how their company will do as a pistol manufacturer over the next ten years.

You are right about one thing; you aren't aware of the goings on within Mossberg. What I know is that pretty much any product they make I can get from them in a week or two at most, in whatever quantity I can financially stomach. Why is this important? It tells me that they're aren't selling as much as they would like. It wasn't all that long ago that I'd have to wait months for a particular model to get back in their inventory. Now there's literally no lead time with any of their existing SKUs. If I were their CFO I would be deeply worried.

Frankly I don't know how long Mossberg has been contemplating a move into the pistol market, but it must have been at least a somewhat lengthy amount of time since product development doesn't happen overnight. They likely aimed well by targeting the convenience carry market first since it continues to have the greatest potential for expansion in handgun sales. But it's a VERY crowded space right now. Can Mossberg afford to build a failure? I don't know, but they are just coming off that sales disaster 590M box mag pump, which so far has been a complete failure for them. We just received a somewhat panicky marketing campaign package where they're now offering free those ungainly box magazines...if only one would PLEASE buy a 590M.

I'd bet their money people are counting on 500/590/Shockwave/930 sales to float their operations while they hope some of these offshoot projects ultimately take hold. But I'd also wager that they they would've been better served had they taken all of these resources for side projects and stuck with embellishing their core base product lines. IMHO they should've focused on developing a NEW lightweight semi-auto shotgun much more suitable for field use that directly takes on the best from Benelli, Browning and Beretta, and does it at a friendlier, enticing price point. Shotguns is after all Mossberg's wheelhouse, and with their current lineup of goods that particular market space (premium waterfowl/upland shotguns) is not served at all. The price points of the Europeans leaves considerable margin for an "upstart" to muscle in on, and frankly more than anything else Mossberg is known for their shotguns (though they ARE a pretty good barrel maker as well), and the public knows this all too well.

As I see it Mossberg is still underserving their core product type. Making pistols on their spare time...sure. But diverting resources from potential avenues that the company is far more associated and acquainted with at the same time? Not wise in my book.

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Originally posted by Pale Horse:
Mossberg might not make a profit on this gun but now they have a pistol that they can hand people.

Yeah, I can see that. Mossberg has something of its own niche in a couple of markets and definitely has a fan base of its own. If it starts off by playing to its established market and its strengths then it might well come up with something with a broader appeal or at least an application for a broader range of people.

Nobody sells as much as they would like to. Last year we sold three times our projections but at the end of the year lost another large project and people were unhappy. You always want to sell more.

Being able to get products with short lead times isn’t always as telling as you might think. Again a good manufacturer thinks long term as well as short term. There are all sorts of reasons we might have a lot of inventory. Sometimes we get a great deal from a supplier and we gamble that carrying inventory is worth the risk in the long run. Sometimes we make a product and it doesn’t sell well so we blow it out. Actually both situations are true right now for us and our CFO is far from worried. Dude is probably boat shopping right now we had such a great year. Three years ago we had a lead time of 28 weeks. Now it’s closer to 4. Neither tells you anything at all about our company profits for those years.

Take my post for what it is...simply input from someone in manufacturing. It’s worth what you are paying for it.