quote:

Originally posted by BehindBlueI's:


180 gr Federal Tactical Bonded has worked great for us. The bullets recovered from bad guys have expanded like the photos in ad copy, they penetrate well, and have dealt with intermediate barriers as well as any pistol bullet.

My agencies experience is much different, we have had several shoots where the suspect lived from what should have been fatal wounds including a head shot. we used to carry the .45acp but the female shooters had issues with recoil and the gun being to big for their hands. I wish we would go back to the .45acp...or go to the 10mm... but that will never happen....Thank god I am allowed to carry what ever I qualify with as a detective.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
The actual fad was the .40 S&W. Didn't last even a quarter of a century and fading more every day.

Meanwhile, the efficient little 9x19 is working on its 12th decade, and the sky's the limit.

Millions and millions of guns and billions upon billions of rounds produced. The 9x19mm is the king of pistol cartridges.

When 40 started getting really popular, I considered it, but couldn't find a real reason to try it. At the time 9mm ammo engineering was on an upswing (more or less iirc), as it certainly is now. And I always thought it was a potent little bastard, and I couldn't see a significant advantage of the 40 over the 9. And I'm glad I didn't convert, because the 9mm is now the best it's ever been, and I don't think the innovation in the 9 is yet over. I think there's more room for improvement, even though right now the 9mm is pretty damn good in terms of modern defense. After the 40 started to decline, I fell in love with the little bastard over again, a sort of coming home thing. So yea, I adore the 9mm. Now when it comes to 357 Sig, yea, there's something interesting for sure, but I've never taken the dive. So yea, I love the 9mm.

And now we're seeing the same kind of shenanigans with Nosler coming out with all of their stupid overbore rifle non-belted magnums, that mimic the performance of the already existing Remington Ultra and Winchester short magnums, some of which came and went like a teenage romance. These too will come and go. Putting out a new round without significant advantages over a great high performance classic, well, that's how things go. Stupid is as stupid does. Come to think of it, maybe Nosler is coming out with all these useless overbore bottlenecks for the sole purpose of selling their own rifles and ammunition. With the exception of the Weatherby, how long is that going to last ? Not long.

quote:

Originally posted by lordhamster:

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
The actual fad was the .40 S&W. Didn't last even a quarter of a century and fading more every day.

Meanwhile, the efficient little 9x19 is working on its 12th decade, and the sky's the limit.

Millions and millions of guns and billions upon billions of rounds produced. The 9x19mm is the king of pistol cartridges.

I can't speak to the effectiveness of different cartridges as I've only ever shot @ steel. I will say that all things being equal, 9mm is the most practical.

I like my P229R in 357/40 but the damned 357 round is so finicky. I've had more trouble with things like setback and jams on feed-lips with this cartridge than any other. The 40 seems reliable, but I don't like giving up two rounds to the 9mm.

The 45 I have in my little Shield 45 is actually remarkably comfy to shoot, but it is definitely a HUGE cartridge with much less capacity.

10mm - Is everything the 40 should have been, but suffers from the same pistol size requirements as the 45ACP. I've never had one, but am strongly considering a P220 in 10mm or an EAA Witness 10mm.

At the end of the day, I suspect in 5 years all that will be left on shelves is 9mm and 45ACP.

Wow. I've had my p229 in 357sig for many years and rounds. Never had one problem. Same in Glock 31..357sig is more reliable then others.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
The actual fad was the .40 S&W. Didn't last even a quarter of a century and fading more every day.

It's a sad 10mm. 10mm, a cartridge which actually performs.

quote:

Originally posted by RUT:

quote:

.45 GAP is going to come back big-time, and rule the market

I hope so.... I've still got six boxes of ammo to get rid of!

That was good. Ha !

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Originally posted by jhe888:
Since the 9mm Parabellum has been around since '96 (1896, that is)...

You're a bit ahead of things. The parent of the 9x19mm- the 7.65x21mm aka .30 Luger- wasn't introduced until 1898. The 9x19 was introduced in 1902, for the British Arms Trials. The 9mm Parabellum is not only the king of pistol cartridges- it's also the most successful stopgap in firearms history. The Brits and the Americans were saying that .30 caliber was too small, The 9x19mm came about because it was the maximum diameter bullet which could fit into a 7.65x21mm case with its neck blown out.

Came for a visit and never left. Yee haw.

That fad will blow over for many when the Libtards manage to ban High Caps.

I'd say maybe in another hundred years. Then again, maybe longer. Either way I won't know about it

quote:

Originally posted by dpadams6:

quote:

Originally posted by lordhamster:
I like my P229R in 357/40 but the damned 357 round is so finicky. I've had more trouble with things like setback and jams on feed-lips with this cartridge than any other.

Wow. I've had my p229 in 357sig for many years and rounds. Never had one problem. Same in Glock 31..357sig is more reliable then others.

I've no experience with the 357 Sig, but yours mirrors everything I've read about it. Only finickiness I've read about it is it's a bit trickier to reload because of the bottleneck case and the bottleneck being relatively short.

Another reason the 9mm will still be popular with LE is because ammo to practice with is affordable, relative to the others.

The 9 mm Parabellum (or Luger) cartridge has a nice balance of all the characteristics of a good self-defense handgun round. The .45 ACP has the American characteristic of being big and powerful. The 40 S&W was the result of the 10 mm being too powerful, but the FBI not being ready to admit the 9 mm was fine all along. If the 9 mm was anything less than well-balanced, it would have declined in popularity by now.

Until there is some revolutionary change in handgun cartridge technology, I expect the 9 mm Parabellum/Luger will remain one of the top three handgun cartridges, and very possibly the top cartridge in popularity.

IMHO, it has never been a fad, and with the current bullet technology making bullet expansion and penetration through just about all barrier material being pretty good, it is currently the **best overall** caliber choice for small frame pistols through full size frame pistols. Undebatable.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Biggy,

The cartridge isn't a fad. I wonder when we will ever see an equivalent change in firearm technology as that from 1892 to 1902. Yeah, 9mm like gunpowder is a fad.

"The German firm of Deutsches Waffen und Munitionsfabriken, Berlin (German arms and ammunition factory) developed and introduced the 9X19 cartridge or 9mm Parabellum in 1902. Little did they know that their progeny was to become the most widely used service pistol cartridge in the world, a century later."

https://www.ammoland.com/2016/...bellum-ammo-history/

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Originally posted by Biggy:
Undebatable.

No, it's very debatable, but it's a stupid debate.

quote:

Originally posted by SigSentry:
"The German firm of Deutsches Waffen und Munitionsfabriken, Berlin (German arms and ammunition factory) developed and introduced the 9X19 cartridge or 9mm Parabellum in 1902. Little did they know that their progeny was to become the most widely used service pistol cartridge in the world, a century later."

https://www.ammoland.com/2016/...bellum-ammo-history/

Yes, IIRC, the original load was a 124 or 125 grain fmj flat point. The 115 grain didn't come until a few years later, requested by the Brits and the Finns.

quote:

Originally posted by MHANNA310:

quote:

Originally posted by BehindBlueI's:


180 gr Federal Tactical Bonded has worked great for us. The bullets recovered from bad guys have expanded like the photos in ad copy, they penetrate well, and have dealt with intermediate barriers as well as any pistol bullet.

My agencies experience is much different, we have had several shoots where the suspect lived from what should have been fatal wounds including a head shot. we used to carry the .45acp but the female shooters had issues with recoil and the gun being to big for their hands. I wish we would go back to the .45acp...or go to the 10mm... but that will never happen....Thank god I am allowed to carry what ever I qualify with as a detective.

Any pistol round will skip off a skull at the right angle, but usually rings their bell enough they are out of the fight for a bit. .45 will do the same, will ride ribs, etc.

I carried a .45 for years, carried a .357 magnum for years, carried a .40 for years, carried a 9mm for years, and if I needed to carry one of any of them tomorrow I wouldn't mind. They all work.

I'm also able to carry nearly anything I want (.380 to .45 (by diameter, so .44s and .45 Colt are allowed as well) 5" and under, no SAO, must pass armorer inspection). I carry whatever they give training ammo for free at the range in.

If bell bottoms can come back, so can .40

Don't say that. Bell bottoms came back in when heroin came back in, and I don't want to have to second guess thousands of junkies just to time my bulk ammo purchases properly.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

quote:

Originally posted by SigSentry:
"The German firm of Deutsches Waffen und Munitionsfabriken, Berlin (German arms and ammunition factory) developed and introduced the 9X19 cartridge or 9mm Parabellum in 1902. Little did they know that their progeny was to become the most widely used service pistol cartridge in the world, a century later."

https://www.ammoland.com/2016/...bellum-ammo-history/

Yes, IIRC, the original load was a 124 or 125 grain fmj flat point. The 115 grain didn't come until a few years later, requested by the Brits and the Finns.

That's very interesting about the 115 with the Brits and Finns. I always thought 115 came about because ammo manufacturers were greedy little bastards and wanted to charge full price for inferior 9mm ammo. Sounds like I was wrong. Do you recall their their reasoning Para ? I can't imagine why with my limited imagination.

quote:

. . . how long until this 9mm fad blows over?

Probably another 115 years.