At this point, is it worth buying one?

https://apnews.com/article/sig...05ec9b04c92856964f21

Yeah, um, I don't own a P320 as I prefer Sig's classic, aluminum framed P-series. But this part of the story caught me:

quote:

...George Abrahams, a U.S. Army veteran and painting contractor in Philadelphia, who has said he holstered his P320, put it in the pocket of his athletic pants and zipped it up before going downstairs.

Time for a modification or face a stream of million dollar verdicts.

https://www.sigsauer.com/blog/...l-now-appeal-verdict

SIG's response:

NEWINGTON, N.H., (November 20, 2024) - We strongly disagree with the verdict in this unintended discharge lawsuit, have already moved for a mistrial, and will be appealing the decision on multiple grounds.

The jury agreed that Plaintiff’s own negligence contributed to his accident. Plaintiff agreed the trigger on his P320 pistol was pulled fully rearward with at least 7 pounds of force. The P320 pistol is designed to discharge when the trigger is pulled and that is what happened in this case.

Plaintiff ignored numerous safety rules and warnings in handling his gun and had never trained with or fired his gun before the discharge occurred despite having purchased it more than a year and a half before his accident.

SIG SAUER believes that the jury’s ruling was unsupported by, and contrary to the evidence presented, and will be filing a motion for a judgment in its favor notwithstanding the verdict and, if denied, will be appealing the decision on multiple grounds.

The design of the SIG SAUER P320 model pistol is innovative and safe, with numerous related patents, including several relating to safety mechanisms. It is among the most tested, proven, and successful handguns in recent history, with versions being selected as the official sidearm of the U.S., Canadian, Australian, and Danish militaries, among many other military and law enforcement organizations worldwide. SIG SAUER is extremely proud of our long history of producing high-quality firearms and our unwavering dedication to safety.

I don't own a P320 or P365 for that matter. I've shot them and they shoot well enough.

That said my personal OPINION is that there is enough of an issue here and enough video evidence out there that I do believe there is some kind of mechanical issue at play. Now that could be as simple as not having a "dingus" on the trigger but I think its more likely QC of parts with some being out of spec and some being fine.

I was a "SIG Guy" for many years, definitely in the "to hell and back" era but IMO the Cohen era has lots of innovation and shit for QC/build quality.

One of the things that kept me away from the P365 was the QC/build quality. In talking to rental places the P365's break more often then their counterparts. (TRS, FTRB etc.) and there is enough out on the webs about rusting issues of mags and such that I am staying away.

Point is I don't think SIG makes guns up to the same level of the past or even their contemporary competitors and its a shame. (Now I don't think they are Taurus bad or anything. Let's not talk crazy. )

So long story short, I won't recommend a P320 to anybody at this point, but again just my OPINION and it worth what you pay for it.

Take care, shoot safe.......and don't let a P320 shoot yer' junk off.

Chris

Question: Would you shoot yourself in the ass for 11 million bucks?

Nothing serious, you know. Just a glancing shot on one cheek.

Based on the articles comment that the pistol was holstered.

I'm trying to figure out what size pants he was wearing, that he could insert a holstered pistol into and then zip it shut. The 320s are all G19 or larger pistols except for the discontinued 320SC which is still big for a pocket gun.

I'm wondering what kind of holster it was. Last I checked SIG doesn't sell a pocket holster for the 320.

Also what happened where 7 pounds of force was applied to the trigger while in said holster while in said pocket. If I applied 7 pounds of pressure in a similar manner would a glock discharge as well?

Athletic pants + going downstairs + 7lbs of pressure on trigger = drawstring in the trigger. (IMHO)

quote:

Originally posted by DTREND75:
At this point, is it worth buying one?

https://apnews.com/article/sig...05ec9b04c92856964f21

Do you plan to point it at your body parts and pull the trigger? Because according to the article that's what happened. I would think that most folks would agree that that's a bad idea with any gun.

At this point I can see agencies being leery about the idea of issuing the gun since the legal precedent has been set and they will likely be held liable along with the manufacturer for user negligence. But I still don't see why an individual should be afraid to buy one. Nobody has yet to demonstrate how the gun fires on it's own when handled properly.

The number of times I've seen someone recommend a Glock over the newer Sigs because of the lawsuits is astonishing.

Does no one recall the "Glock Leg" from holstering (or un-holstering with a Serpa) or the "Glock Hand" from people trying to disassemble the Glock after failing to clear the chamber?

Any gun is only as safe as the person holding it.

I have personally never heard of a P320 going off by itself while sitting holstered in a locker, nightstand or drawer. It seems to always happen while someone is carrying the pistol or holding it.


I believe many of the cases are caused by user error. Some may be the result of side pressure being applied to the trigger by the holster or something else. I do believe the design of the P320 without the manual safety is less forgiving.
I remember a time when carrying a cocked 1911 without the safety on was a bad idea. At least a 1911 has a grip safety that prevents the trigger from being pulled unless you have a firing grip. A Glock had a trigger safety that prevents the pistol from firing if side pressure is applied. The P320 has none of that.

quote:

The number of times I've seen someone recommend a Glock over the newer Sigs because of the lawsuits is astonishing.

Glock was a brand new concept to the vast majority of users. A striker fired gun, no safety, and a fairly light trigger pull.

The P320 lives in a market LONG since accustomed to striker fired pistols. You simply don’t hear of its competitors having the same issues in 2024.

One of the many things I’ve learned over the past 20+ years is how some people’s belief systems operate.

Over 100 people have claimed that their P320s fired spontaneously without their having anything to do with it. According to the ’net, over 1100 people have claimed to have seen the Loch Ness monster, and although I wasn’t able to determine a precise number, a lot of people—surely more than 100—have claimed to have been abducted by space aliens.

And what about “Me, too”?

I believe I’m correct when I suspect that many of us here are skeptical of many of the claims by women that they were sexually assaulted at some time in the (usually very distant) past by a man who is rich, famous, and preferably both. In fact, at one time at least, crime investigators were specifically advised that a stale claim of that sort was legitimate grounds to be skeptical of its validity. Without looking, isn’t there even something in the Bibles about that?

And yet when someone makes a claim that is usually even less verifiable than a 10-year-old claim of fondling or rape, and it pertains to a P320’s firing for no apparent reason (other than that it was being carried and not lying on someone’s bedside table), then: “He said it, so how could it not be true?”

One other thing I’ve learned, though, is if you’re afraid of something, avoid it. Then it can’t hurt you, so why would you even ask a bunch of strangers for their opinion?

quote:

It seems to always happen while someone is carrying the pistol or holding it.


I believe many of the cases are caused by user error. Some may be the result of side pressure being applied to the trigger by the holster or something else. I do believe the design of the P320 without the manual safety is less forgiving

I do believe a lot of it is this. I do think the pistol is less forgiving. That said I do think there is some truth to them accidentally discharging and I surmise it has to do with bad QC and some kind of movement, stress/bending/vibration/
Whatever that may be causing some kind of failure. While I don’t think every P320 is a grenade with the pin pulled I do think there is something there so to speak.

Also can I use FMJ to shoot myself in the ass? Just curious?

And once again because I have already posted:

If someone believes an "upgraded" P320 can fire without its trigger being pulled, please explain how that could happen, step by mechanical step describing in specific detail how the several parts of the gun could allow that.

Anyone?

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
And once again because I have already posted:

If someone believes an "upgraded" P320 can fire without its trigger being pulled, please explain how that could happen, step by mechanical step describing in specific detail how the several parts of the gun could allow that.

Anyone?

You could probably heat it up until a chambered round cooked off, right? Otherwise I’ve got nothing.

quote:

Originally posted by cslinger:

That said I do think there is some truth to them accidentally discharging and I surmise it has to do with bad QC and some kind of movement, stress/bending/vibration/
Whatever that may be causing some kind of failure. While I don’t think every P320 is a grenade with the pin pulled I do think there is something there so to speak.

It very well could be. I just don't know enough about the internal design/re-design/re-re-design of the P320 to comment past my org. observations.

My EDC for years now, pre & post recall/upgrade. IWB & OWB.
Haven't shot myself in the ass yet

This message has been edited. Last edited by: P250UA5,

It's basically a single-action handgun. Operating one safety demands an appreciation and respect for the consequences of that trigger being pulled, and the possible ways in which that can occur. It's not a DA revolver or a Ruger LCP...the action is much less forgiving.

I would not personally carry a P320 in a pocket. I would say the same for a P365, or a Glock for that matter. I would also not stick one in a soft-sided nylon holster, or any holster that would allow an outside object to encroach on the trigger. I do, however, feel perfectly safe with the gun on a belt in a properly-fitted kydex holster that protects the trigger and prevents it from being inadvertently pulled.