In my defense I had just read the post in What’s your Deal about people responding to threads without actually reading the thread. So I might have been too quick to jump on that subject. Oh well, at least I know now that cleaning guns is good.

is your gun clean??

Hmm, I never thought of that. lol

I just shot 300 rounds of Aguila out of my Walter PPQ 22LR 4 inch barrel pistol with only one stovepipe. It was there super high velocity ammo rated at 1225 feet a second. As with my other 22 caliber pistol the higher velocity ammo the more reliable the gun becomes.

That is a true statement. However, many myself included have shot cases of standard velocity ammo out of semi autos for years without issue.

I have never had any issues with CCI SV ammo ever. In fact I would argue that the quantifying factor that is more relevant than speed is quality. A quality SV ammo works better in semi autos than a poor quality high velocity. As my anecdotal evidence I present Remingtons Golden Bullets bulk pack.

I shoot quite a lot of 22. Rem Golden’s used to be stocked in Walmart’s for a reasonable price. 18.97 seems to stick in my brain. They had 550 per pack as well I think. High velocity. At one pint my basement looked liked a sporting goods store. Then over the years the quality tanked. It became awful. For a long time. I stopped buying it and moved on to other brands.

My point is that the Aguila isn’t malfunctioning because it’s standard velocity. It’s malfunctioning because it’s filthy. It’s waxy, it’s dirty, it’s sticky. My limited testing showed that merely wiping off the excess nasty made it work. Funny thing is, they package it in little 50 round boxes individually. The rounds don’t even touch each other. In bulk pack I can understand a little nasty because 500 bullets are rubbing all over each other. In these, they literally could have gone one step more and tumbled them at least a bit cleaner and they would work.

I’m sure there are guns that only function with high velocity ammo. I’m a snob though. If I buy a 22 and it’s finicky like that I get rid of it. Walther P22 comes to mind. Don’t miss that one at all. Beretta Bobcat as well, even though I kept that one thinking I could fix it. So far, not really. My Kadets and B87 eat everything equally which is why I love them. I listen to guys who only shoot certain brands of ammo to make their gun work. Not me. If it doesn’t work with cheap bulk pack (unless it’s the ammo) then I move on.

I am the other way 'round. I consider different brands of .22 to be almost the equivalent of different centerfire calibers and am willing to cater to a gun I like. I don't buy cheap bulk anyhow. CCI SV or HV covers nearly all bases.

I have Aquila that does ok and some Remington Gold apparently from before the quality decline. A guy gave it to me because it was insufficiently accurate in his bolt action rifles but adequate in auto pistols.

I found a stash of old Winchester T22 that I need to check out. I recall it being accurate in my High Standard.

The one that beats me is Wolf MT/ME and SK Jagd (Same headstamp and lube feel, apparently different labels out of the same European plant.). Too low powered to cycle autos, too hard primer for revolver. Very accurate in a bolt action rifle, so I guess I will have to dig out the Savage/Anschutz I haven't used much lately.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Watson:
The one that beats me is Wolf MT/ME and SK Jagd (Same headstamp and lube feel, apparently different labels out of the same European plant.). Too low powered to cycle autos, too hard primer for revolver.

I agree that they’re the same ammunition, just different branding. It’s the type I shoot most these days; very accurate.

As an interesting discovery recently, below is a series of “groups” I fired some years ago with a then-recently purchased vintage S&W model 17. Although I could find nothing wrong with the revolver, it started experiencing severe bore leading and bullet instability. I unfortunately didn’t record the ammunition I was using, but it was some of the cheap bulk types, I believe. Because I couldn’t believe that the ammunition could be that much at fault (it had worked fine in other guns), I basically gave up on the 17 and it languished in storage for a long time. I finally decided, though, that it was foolish to assume it was just the gun and tried some Wolf MT last weekend. The revolver lights it off just fine, good accuracy, and no signs of leading or instability.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Watson:
The one that beats me is Wolf MT/ME and SK Jagd (Same headstamp and lube feel, apparently different labels out of the same European plant.). Too low powered to cycle autos, too hard primer for revolver. Very accurate in a bolt action rifle, so I guess I will have to dig out the Savage/Anschutz I haven't used much lately.

Wolf Match target and Match Extra were made by SK up until about two years ago. They are now made by Eley. I don't know which Eley grade they correspond to, but I would guess and say Club and Match.

I shot a lot of the Sk\Wolf MT, and bought a brick of the Eley\Wolf MT to test it against. Out of my guns it shoots pretty much the same. I shoot a lot of 22lr pistol, and I've never had a problem with either MT Wolf not functioning, including a Ruger GP 100 in 22lr. Which Wolf were you shooting that wouldn't run for you?

Thanks for the history about Wolf.

I hear you. I shoot 22’s in pistols at pistol ranges predominantly. So extreme accuracy while nice isn’t a prerequisite. Functioning is. I buy center fire by the case but had always just went to Walmart and if I was going to shoot half of a bulk pack I would buy 3 or 4. This went on for years, hence the stash. This is also why I don’t just buy one brand of 22. I would get what was cheap and available. REM Goldens were decent for years in my experience.

It was only when two things happened that I started buying by the case and specific brands. The Beretta Bobcat mentioned above was a jamming whore. I love that gun though so I was determined to “fix” it. I found a recipe that makes it reliable for about 7 mags worth. Part of that was it would digest CCI Blazers quite well. Obviously mini mags as well but Blazers were quite a but cheaper by the bulk pack. Also, Walmart around me basically stopped selling ammo.

I’m blessed with lots of 22’s that aren’t finicky. (Or I weeded them out by natural selection). I hate finicky.

quote:

Originally posted by rburg:
The first thing you do when you start to get misfires or function failures, just clean the damn gun.

I've generally found that works for me

What would you genius’s do if the gun was clean already?

This thread actually produced some good information. Ideas I’d never heard of nor had some others apparently. I had people email me with additional information that was fascinating. They didn’t want to add it here because this thread turned into a bunch of guys junking it up with bullshit. Maybe you two are just smarter than everybody else.

Stow your sense of humor for a moment and read the comments. You might learn something. I certainly did.

quote:

Originally posted by Chris Orndorff:

quote:

Originally posted by RichardC:
I've been very happy with Aguila rimfire ammo.

Yeah, while I haven't shot tons of it, I don't recall having any issues.

I have several bricks of their "target" stuff and have shot it so far with zero problems. Then again, I shoot it in a bolt-action rifle, and I keep my guns AND mags clean, so that might be part of my success with it. Other than being really stinky, it functions fine and is as accurate as my CCI Standard Velocity subsonic stuff!

Edit to add: I found your other post about your guns being clean, so let's say that isn't the problem. All I can think of is the waxy coating being too stiff in cold weather. Again, I mostly shoot it out of a bolt gun so the wax doesn't bother me. And to your original question about wiping ammo down with an oily rag.... no, I've never heard of anyone having to do that, but it ISN'T a bad idea!

My two cents on Aguila and Rem Oil, I have used Aguila ammo (9mm) and it was pretty good, I was expecting it to be low quality but is was not. Seemed Similar to Winchester USA in quality.

Rem Oil is great for .22 LR guns, it is light enough that it does not impede function and when it is applied with a Q Tip swab , it does a fair job of cleaning dirty .22 actions, I think it also has Teflon in it which seems to help the action function.

I usually put a drop of Rem Oil on the feed ramp before shooting my Mark II's and replenish it every 50 rounds or so, I also use a Q Tip with a bit of Rem Oil to swab out the chamber as well.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: CAR,

quote:

Which Wolf were you shooting that wouldn't run for you?

My troublesome Wolf and SK are at least 11 years old and were at least dampened in The Incident.
It generally goes off on the second hit in the revolver and it will (usually) cycle the M41 if loaded with 5 as a target shooter would.

Dampened to the point of some of the boxes coming unglued and loose ammo dumped in baggies. But salvaged Aquila does well as does some T22 that turned up.

A note about my experience with Aguila 22 ammo. About six years ago almost 40% of the shooters I knew were using the SV subsconic as their 22 match ammo. I was shooting an IZH35m and a Ruger MkIII, but that ammo was being used in a fairly wide variety of guns save the high end European stuff. I went to a Walther GSP and immediately started getting 10% failure to chamber fully. I cured the problem by going to Wolf MT and then to SK Standard Plus when Wolf went to Eley. The Aguila just wasn't concentric enough, and guns with tight match chambers were having trouble with it. Fast forward to about two years ago I bought a brick of the SV Subsconic. It was underpowered, even for a subsconic, and not nearly as accurate as it had been. The better rimfire ammo is batch checked before it's sold to ensure quality, the lower end not so much.

Tried some Aqulia in my revolver yesterday. Shot ok but extraction was very difficult. Tried a few in a semi and they were ok. Will try cleaning some in the tumbler for the revolver. My plan was for the revolver. Hope they extract better.

Thanks for the input guys. In the cold the waxy coating was very obvious. It just wouldn’t function. By email I was told that many high volume sponsored type shooters would have a tumbler just to clean off the factory gunk from their rounds. From good quality rounds. If they didn’t have a chance or forgot, that before a match they would literally wipe off all the rounds to be shot. It was a very interesting addition to this conversation that the gentleman didn’t want to add due to the ridiculous course this thread took.

Hearing all that and having played around with it myself, I am a believer. No matter how cleaned and lubed your gun/mags are, your rimfire reliability will improve by wiping/cleaning/tumbling your rounds. This is way more common among the top shooters than you know apparently.

I am no top shooter but for a rimfire match I certainly am adding this to my pre match activities.

As to the mags cleanliness, I expected it to be dirty but it wasn’t at all. Clean enough that I didn’t bother with any others, besides which the wiping down fixed the entire issue. Like I said before, I’m used to incremental improvements. Most of the big fixes in my firearms have already been taken care of over the years. I’m happy to find something that shaves a bit here and there. This wasn’t that. It was night and day difference. Instantly. It was also a repeatable occurrence. Stop wiping them down, instant stoppage. Wipe down, runs like a top.

Rarely have I stumbled onto something that worked as effectively as this tip. Take that as you will. If you shoot bolt actions you probably needn’t waste your time. If you only shoot top shelf match ammo, perhaps not. If you shoot whatever ammo crosses your shooting bench this might be for you. lol

I have seen sticky extraction with Aquila in my K22. It shoots these old T22s but when they are gone, it will be all CCI MM.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
Stow your sense of humor for a moment ....

That’s like King Canute’s demanding that the tide stop coming in.

It would be an interesting psychological study to try to determine why some people feel compelled to clutter up serious discussions with inappropriate juvenile comments, but even when they’re requested to not do it, they inevitably appear like mushrooms in a French forest after a rain. I have never seen a forum rule discouraging the practice, and have therefore just learned to ignore them as much as possible.