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Picture of 4MUL8R
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Iron sights are rapidly being replaced by red dots, for good reason. I wanted to see if the laser grip would allow me to maintain vision of target and overcome the challenges of old eyes, without modifying the slide, refinishing the slide, and purchasing an expensive optic. The grips are not inexpensive, but they are owner installable.

The pistol — a P229 Legion. Range training required lots of movement. Threat targets were obscured by friendlies. I wanted to see how a laser grip and “target focus” would work for me. Wow! What a difference!

Although the pistol was sighted for 357 Sig, training ammo cost of 65 $ / box led me to swap barrel for 40 S&W. So, with a difference in POA / POI, I was not sure how the laser dot would work.

It worked. I was able to ring the plate at 25 and 15 yards at will. Moving through the simulation of a threat amongst friendlies, having the red dot on the target eliminated the concern of focusing on front sight with a blurry target. Given the probability of friendlies near the target, in this situation, I felt better with threat focus.

Recoil and follow up shots were quick and instinctive.

I also practiced slide lock reloads on the move, and bringing the laser dot back on target was easy.

I recommend if you are considering a sight improvement that you evaluate a laser.

Respecting the vast experience and expertise of many on the forum, my simple evaluation is not intended to disparage, disquiet, disturb, or disqualify other views of how to engage targets. I am not looking for “responsible opposing viewpoints” nor do I criticize proper iron sight use, red dots, or the practices of any agency. I only wanted to share the positive experience I had, one that gives me more confidence in my application.


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Posts: 3850 | Location: Commonwealth of Virginia | Registered: January 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of RichardC
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by 4MUL8R:

Education and practice in using a valuable tool. Thanks for your post!
Training for CT Lasergrip use isn't easy to find but would be as valuable as training is for RDS's. Smile

This message has been edited. Last edited by: RichardC,


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Posts: 13263 | Location: Florida | Registered: June 23, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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My S&W Shield has a laser made into the frame and I must say it is quite accurate and makes shooting a bit easier,for point shooting. I have had a few other lasers over the years that mount to the frame or grip/panel but not all are equal and do not always aid in shooting accuracy.
 
Posts: 5786 | Location: Treasure Coast,Fl. | Registered: July 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have a number of lasers on my handguns and have found them valuable in practice. With that said, in the back of my mind is always the rule to never totally rely on electronics.
 
Posts: 2599 | Location: Greenville, SC | Registered: January 30, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I like CT laser grips. They served me well on P226 from 04-06. Nothing was better than a suspect's facial expression when they saw that red dot on them.
 
Posts: 497 | Location: Beaumont TX | Registered: March 05, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I'm Fine
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I've got CT laser grips on my .357 SP101 and love the rubber grip as well as the laser aiming support/option. Doesn't block the normal sites and even reasonably visible during daylight (on my backyard range at least - which is wooded and kinda shaded). Haven't tried them in a bright non-shaded environment. Also haven't gotten a chance to see how far away the dot will still be useful (accurate and visible - both).

Last Christmas my girls bought me a set of CT laser sites for my P3AT. Clamps onto the trigger guard. Had to buy a new holster, but I like the laser just fine. Not as big a deal for this gun since it's definitely a close-in weapon. I could see it helping if I had to shoot from the hip so-to-speak and especially in darkened conditions...


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SBrooks
 
Posts: 3717 | Location: East Tennessee | Registered: August 21, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Lasers are not something you want to solely rely on. Batteries die, you could need it outdoors on a bright sunny day and you just won’t be able to see it. I view them more of a gimmick than anything, if you can’t find iron sights that work for you then just get a red dot and be done. It is worth it in the long run. I don’t focus so much on my sights period for up close defensive shooting, I practice point shooting and it’s pretty easy with some practice.
 
Posts: 3263 | Registered: December 06, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I'm Fine
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Both my Crimson trace grips/sites leave the existing iron sights completely usable.

And if your arguement is about batteries - why are you promoting red dots ?


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SBrooks
 
Posts: 3717 | Location: East Tennessee | Registered: August 21, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
אַרְיֵה
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My wife wears glasses with progressive lenses. She has to tilt her head at a really unnatural angle in order to bring the front sight into focus.

Hogue laser grips make it much easier for her; she can just look at where she's shooting. We got the green laser, much more visible outdoors in bright daylight.

As far as I know, red dot sights are not an option for the revolver that she carries.



Any cocktail can be a shrimp cocktail if you put your mind to it, and if you carry lots of loose shrimp in your pocket.

הרחפת שלי מלאה בצלופחים
 
Posts: 26057 | Location: Central Florida, Orlando area | Registered: January 03, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Nullus Anxietas
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quote:
Originally posted by patw:
... makes shooting a bit easier,for point shooting.

That's the only utility I see.

I have a CT grip laser on my Ruger LCP. I shoot it better with its abbreviated iron sights than I do the laser.

Maybe more practice with the laser? But that LCP isn't exactly a joy to shoot, either Wink

quote:
Originally posted by SBrooks:
Both my Crimson trace grips/sites leave the existing iron sights completely usable.

Why would grip lasers leave the iron sights unusable?

Superfluous, in your experience/opinion, maybe. But unusable?




"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
"If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher
"The dominant media is no more ``mainstream`` than leftists are liberals." -- me
 
Posts: 21649 | Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I'm Fine
Picture of SBrooks
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quote:
Originally posted by ensigmatic:
quote:
Originally posted by patw:
... makes shooting a bit easier,for point shooting.

That's the only utility I see.

I have a CT grip laser on my Ruger LCP. I shoot it better with its abbreviated iron sights than I do the laser.

Maybe more practice with the laser? But that LCP isn't exactly a joy to shoot, either Wink

quote:
Originally posted by SBrooks:
Both my Crimson trace grips/sites leave the existing iron sights completely usable.

Why would grip lasers leave the iron sights unusable?

Superfluous, in your experience/opinion, maybe. But unusable?


I was making a point for limblebiff or whoever posted above that we should be relying on iron sights. Just saying that I have CT stuff and still have iron sights that work just fine. Can use either one when needed/wanted...


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SBrooks
 
Posts: 3717 | Location: East Tennessee | Registered: August 21, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I think limblessbiff's point was that red dots work in bright light a lot better than a laser and this is true.... but I would say just like with a laser you better have iron sights to fall back on. One other thing a laser is good at is in practice with drawing and shooting fast and not even using the regular sights.... and this might be better in the long run with training and if you ever needed to use the gun in a close quarters situation... just draw and shoot because your muscle memory using the laser has set in.. even if the laser is not working.
 
Posts: 2599 | Location: Greenville, SC | Registered: January 30, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I've got a set on my S&W 340. I love them, they make one handed shooting much easier.
 
Posts: 4374 | Location: Where ever Uncle Sam Sends Me | Registered: March 05, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have CT grips on all my carry/self defense pistols. They're great for dry firing practice as I immediately notice if there is any dot movement when I pull the trigger.


While the laser can be used to gauge the point of impact I typically use it as a way to "double check" my aim using iron sights for casual shooting.


About 10 years ago I took a Grayguns Pistol course with jljones as one of the instructors. One of my biggest takeaways was the "press out" style of shooting where the trigger is being depressed as the firearm is being pressed out from the chest towards the target. In the instances where the gun fires before the shooter is able to align the sights to the eyes, muscle memory should place the shot on target (or at the very least in the direction of the target). When doing this drill with a laser sight it absolutely helps to develop that muscle memory and leads to more consistent alignments.
 
Posts: 255 | Location: Puerto Rico | Registered: October 11, 2020Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Telling cops where to go for over 25 years
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I’ve been a proponent of lasers for years. No, they don’t magically make you better and you still need to be able to use iron sights. I always get a chuckle with the “electronics fail, batteries die” argument people toss out. Yes, they do. Nothing is perfect, guns jam. Primers fail, magazines come apart, iron sights shift and some even fall out!

If you are carrying a gun, I certainly hope you are doing regular maintenance on it, practice with it, and keep it in good working order. That is just common sense.



As others noted, as we get older eyes, the ability to properly focus on iron sights can be challenging.

In a threat situation it is human nature to focus on the threat, seeing that red (or green) dot coming on target is verification that you have everything lined up. You get the same feedback with a RDS, but my experience is an RDS takes a little more practice to get it to naturally bring to bear as you still need to have alignment with eye/sight.

As another noted, RDS can fail as well (batteries/electronics) and in such case a LOT of RDS equipped guns have the iron sights obscured by the RDS. That is not the case with a laser.



My most frequent carry is a P365, it has had the Sig red laser on it since day 1. After about 2 years, the activation switch recently became difficult, needing much more pressure to activate than it should.

I replaced it with the Sig green laser Lima model. Green lasers do just fine in daylight. Variety is the spice of life, no one thing works for everyone. Find what works for you and train with it until you are proficient. That includes training for failures of all possible types.






What part of "...Shall not be infringed" don't you understand???


 
Posts: 10005 | Location: Western WA state for just a few more years... | Registered: February 17, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of RGRacing
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Great Post -
My wife (73) hates autos of any kind. Got her a LCR 22WMR, she will shoot it but hates it due to the recoil. Got her a Ruger Bearcat and she loves it.

I'm on the hunt for a LCR 22LR and you can bet I'm adding a CT grip. I need her to want to carry it.
 
Posts: 316 | Location: Mpls, MN | Registered: January 05, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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