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Member |
If the recently released surplus M17’s were in the original 5000 released to the military, does anyone know how to tell if they were modified to make them drop-safe? I’ve heard a thinner trigger (original looked like a 226 trigger) or an area of exposed metal by the striker channel where the PVD coating was scraped away may be indicators? Anybody know if there is truth to either? No plans to keep dropping the pistol on it’s backside, but just curious what y’all might know? "Nothing ruins a good war story like a good eyewitness" - Annonymous | ||
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| Member |
Unfortunately that’s how Sig operates these days.. they are some shady sons of bitches and they are far from the only company to do this but it seems like it’s their standard response to any problem these days. Like the p365 for example. I wouldn’t buy a new product from sig until it’s been out for a year or two. Hell, I trust companies like ruger more than I trust sig, and I don’t really like rugers | |||
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| Behold my Radiance!  |
Seriously? Designer and custom pistolsmith at Grayguns Inc. Privileged to be R&D consultant to the world's greatest maker of fine firearms: SIG SAUER Visit us at http://opspectraining.com/product-cat/videos/ to order yours, and Thank You for making GGI the leader in custom SIG and HK pistolsmithing and high-grade components. Bruce Gray, President Grayguns Inc. Grayguns.com / 888.585.4729 | |||
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| Just mobilize it |
Based on some information gathered online I have surmised that it had to do with the area cut away near the striker channel. It will be after the fact so it’s not coated tan like the commercial ones. I may be wrong though. | |||
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| Member |
I don’t know what the first reply is on about. As for the OP’s question, I’ll toss out my best understanding and anyone that knows better can correct me. The military version did not get upgraded, as it already had the design details incorporated. The civilian upgrade program brought commercial pistols up to where the .mil ones were already. So while commercial pistols that were upgraded did get a thinner/lighter trigger and a milled out area on the underside of the slide to operate the disconnector, the military versions should’ve been built that way to begin with. Again, if someone knows better, by all means correct me. Basically, if the pistol has this part in the FCU, it’s upgraded: https://www.gunpartscorp.com/f...-disconnector-242398 ------------------------------------------------ Charter member of the vast, right-wing conspiracy | |||
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E tan e epi tas |
I thought the .mil guns were good to go out of the gate as the issue had already been addressed in them. "Guns are tools. The only weapon ever created was man." | |||
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Sigforum K9 handler |
The military guns are drop safe. They have the “upgrades”. | |||
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| Just mobilize it |
Mine, along with very other surplus M17 that I have seen, has had the “cut” that is not finished, suggesting that indeed there were “upgrades” that took place after the guns were returned to Sig. It was reported that the M17’s were actually returned for various upgrades including trigger bar repairs among others. I believe the drop safe addition was also not present on the initial batch. Remember these M17’s were issued a couple years back. I don’t even care though as it’s a piece of history and I don’t intend to shoot mine as I have a commercial version to shoot. | |||
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Member |
I own a very low serial number M17 Commemorative. It also has the drop safety cut that was done after the slide was finished. I do not believe that you can categorically state that if the safety cut is unfinished, it was done after the pistol was returned to SIG. There were probably thousands of slides in process (not yet assembled) that were reworked after they were returned from the finishing contractor. | |||
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Bolt Thrower |
Is it not ok to be suspicious of returned, early product from a design with a known defect at the time of production, that the manufacturer and representatives brushed off? | |||
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Member |
If you look at the underside of the slide you will see a new area milled or cut that Sig must have done after the pistols were built. It is shiny and unfinished and obviously new. They did much more than just put a new trigger in. La Dolce Vita | |||
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| Freethinker |
Rather than looking for notches, finished or unfinished, an easier way to determine whether a P320 has been “upgraded” is to look for the new style disconnector in the fire control unit, and which I assume the older M17s also have. With a little imagination, the current disconnector looks somewhat like a bird’s eye and beak. It extends up from the sear housing just in front of the right rear FCU rail. A drawing: Older schematics of the sear housing do not show the current part: “I can’t give you brains, but I can give you a diploma.” — The Wizard of Oz This life is a drill. It is only a drill. If it had been a real life, you would have been given instructions about where to go and what to do. | |||
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| Behold my Radiance! |
Seriously? First off, you’re stating a less than fully-informed opinion as fact, which raises my suspicions. Second, after all the intense effort and huge costs which SIG and it’s representatives & associates paid to resolve the issue and support the voluntary upgrade (to include a permanent line set up to upgrade every original P320), no one seriously imagines they would reverse course and go out of their way to offer first-generation pistols. I’m understandably incredulous. -Bruce Designer and custom pistolsmith at Grayguns Inc. Privileged to be R&D consultant to the world's greatest maker of fine firearms: SIG SAUER Visit us at http://opspectraining.com/product-cat/videos/ to order yours, and Thank You for making GGI the leader in custom SIG and HK pistolsmithing and high-grade components. Bruce Gray, President Grayguns Inc. Grayguns.com / 888.585.4729 | |||
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| Bolt Thrower |
The center of why there is a question. It’s not outrageous for customers to want to know if an optional safety update was performed on old returned firearms. If you take offense to this questioning, that’s on you. | |||
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| Member |
I agree with this, Voshterkoff. With due respect, the Greyguns response channels the "stupid question" position and it's anything, but. I've read every bit of material that I could find as a relative newcomer to the P320 platform since last fall and in addition, discussed my own pistols with local, knowledgeable armorers. Getting into the Sig platform within the recent year - both P320 and P365 - requires a bit of searching and questioning to understand the evolution and function of the original and current pistols. Frankly, it's been a bit of a pain. SIG Sauer could have done a much more comprehensive job of informing and explaining the parts, pieces, and specific timing of changes, IMO. | |||
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| Behold my Radiance! |
My initial “Seriously” response was a more personal and jocular response to a friend, and I should have explained myself. Those of us who are knowledgeable and fair minded about this subject will tell you there is zero chance SIG SAUER will knowingly release any P320 variant that is not to the voluntary upgrade standard. My second “Seriously” is a full-on “Are you kidding us?” response to a member who should absolutely know this to be true but chooses to beat in SIG SAUER anyhow. Just more of the same attitude we can expect from a small group of members here, which drives off people like me and the OP with something to contribute. I apologise to him for my impatient reaction. It wasn’t really directed at him, but rather at my long-standing irritation with the little chorus of SIG haters on my home Sigforum, of all places. It got tiresome a decade ago. -Bruce Designer and custom pistolsmith at Grayguns Inc. Privileged to be R&D consultant to the world's greatest maker of fine firearms: SIG SAUER Visit us at http://opspectraining.com/product-cat/videos/ to order yours, and Thank You for making GGI the leader in custom SIG and HK pistolsmithing and high-grade components. Bruce Gray, President Grayguns Inc. Grayguns.com / 888.585.4729 | |||
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| Member |
That’s a useful point of view, thank you. Context does matter and my recent arrival to the platform lacks tenure. I do think the hobbiest-level consumer is left with putting some of this together, agendas notwithstanding. BR/ | |||
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| Behold my Radiance! |
Agreed. I have days where the curmudgeon in me comes out more than I wish. I shall do better to manifest the values I espouse. But dang it all, a new member here who asks an innocent question about anything SIG, shouldn’t have to suffer though pages of SIG-hating bullshit from Glock fanboys, OCD collectors and malcontents to get a factual answer. As one who seeks out people to help as an article of my faith and commitment to this community who did so much for me and my company, I’m about out of patience for it. -Bruce Designer and custom pistolsmith at Grayguns Inc. Privileged to be R&D consultant to the world's greatest maker of fine firearms: SIG SAUER Visit us at http://opspectraining.com/product-cat/videos/ to order yours, and Thank You for making GGI the leader in custom SIG and HK pistolsmithing and high-grade components. Bruce Gray, President Grayguns Inc. Grayguns.com / 888.585.4729 | |||
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| Member |
^^^^^ I appreciate your input on this forum. I hope that you will contribute your insights as time goes on. Thank you. | |||
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| Member |
-Bruce[/QUOTE] a new member here who asks an innocent question about anything SIG, shouldn’t have to suffer though pages of SIG-hating bullshit from Glock fanboys, OCD collectors and malcontents to get a factual answer. As one who seeks out people to help as an article of my faith and commitment to this community who did so much for me and my company, I’m about out of patience for it. -Bruce[/QUOTE] One of the strengths of this forum is that there are people like Bruce here who offer good, reliable, and timely information. Sigfreund’s disconnector posts are another example of why this isn’t just a fanboy site, but a resource to enthusiasts. Thank you all for your contributions "Nothing ruins a good war story like a good eyewitness" - Annonymous | |||
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